Ebay's Worst Offerings

[argentumandcoins 70]

I appreciate I'm new here, although not to collecting, but couldn't help noticing a dealer (Martin Platt) getting a particularly hard time in an earlier post. I know nothing of him except that I recently purchased the following item: 1925 Halfcrown

Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

Oh dear. Let me be the one to break this to you Accumulator : if that halfcrown had been anywhere near the EF he claimed it to be, do you think you would have won it for fifty quid? I'm not saying you paid an unfair price, but considering it HAS been cleaned, and is around VF, you probably paid a FAIR price for it, without getting a bargain.

As with all transactions caveat emptor. I've not bought anything off MP but after seeing what I've been pointed at in this forum, I'm not likely to.

I don't know how many 1925 halfcrowns you have sold recently Peck, but I would have sold this at £70 (that's taken £70 not asked for). No, it isn't EF but it is better than VF with the usual weak portrait. Cleaning, or more accurately dipping, on these doesn't deter the buyers. I would therefore say that a £20 reduction on my price was a snip?

[Colin G. 147]

Oh dear. Let me be the one to break this to you Accumulator : if that halfcrown had been anywhere near the EF he claimed it to be, do you think you would have won it for fifty quid? I'm not saying you paid an unfair price, but considering it HAS been cleaned, and is around VF, you probably paid a FAIR price for it, without getting a bargain.

[/quote

I have to admit that the attitude from some of the forum members towards Accumulator has really surprised me. At no time have they said wow bargain, they said they were happy with the coin they bought and the price they paid.

Do we not always tell collectors on here "buy the coin not the grade". That is exactly what they have done, they have then commended the service they have received and been subject to this There is no harm highlighting issues to fellow collectors, but lets do it pleasantly.

Believe me I am definitely not defending cleaning coins to enhance profitibility, or any other bad practise, just publicly airing my views on the service I received when buying copper coins from MP in the past. Why is that so wrong

[azda 979]

I think His point being is that a cleaned coin virtually halves its value, so His point is that perhaps You've actually paid to much for it. Resale value whenever u Decoder to sell it on would Be minimal if it was a dealer you Sold it to or auctionhouse.

I think People are seriously missing the Most valid points here, cleaning is a huge No no, so is overgrading, Whats the Point in buying something overgraded and cleaned if Ure a serious collector

[Colin G. 147]

Whats the Point in buying something overgraded

That is exactly the point I am trying to make, you do not buy a grade, you buy a coin. By all means use the grade as an indicator (and again I will say any blatant attempt to overgrade is definitely wrong), but you are buying a coin not a grade.

As long as you get the coin you want for the price you are willing to pay why is that a bad move as a serious collector.

When you come to sell your coins in years to come, you are still selling a coin, the grade it was given at the time you bought it will have very little effect on your sale unless it is from one of the few prestigous dealers or it has provenance from a known collector (or its in a plastic tomb with the grade written on it )

[VickySilver 830]

Which is a plug for the TPGs (or at least the respectable ones), and a whole different angle to this thread.

Accumulator got his coin, and hope he is happy with it.

I think there are possibly shades of gray to this whole argument, and that it still boils down to the buyer being knowledgeable and to be able to recognise "treated" coins for what they are; unfortunately this does take advantage of the newer collector to some degree.

I also think that it is shady for dealers to buy coins, tweak them to deceive and to sell them at unseemly profit. At some point ethics might have a chance to sneak in?

[Colin G. 147]

Which is a plug for the TPGs (or at least the respectable ones), and a whole different angle to this thread.

Accumulator got his coin, and hope he is happy with it.

I think there are possibly shades of gray to this whole argument, and that it still boils down to the buyer being knowledgeable and to be able to recognise "treated" coins for what they are; unfortunately this does take advantage of the newer collector to some degree.

I also think that it is shady for dealers to buy coins, tweak them to deceive and to sell them at unseemly profit. At some point ethics might have a chance to sneak in?

I agree wholeheartedly, you should have joined in earlier it would have saved me and Dave some typing

As for the new collector that is why it is essential to know what you are buying before you buy, and therefore buy the book before the coin (especially expensive ones). The same rule must apply to all areas of collectables and/or investing. If you go in blind you will get burned, it does not make it right, but it will always happen.

[azda 979]

Which is a plug for the TPGs (or at least the respectable ones), and a whole different angle to this thread.

Accumulator got his coin, and hope he is happy with it.

I think there are possibly shades of gray to this whole argument, and that it still boils down to the buyer being knowledgeable and to be able to recognise "treated" coins for what they are; unfortunately this does take advantage of the newer collector to some degree.

I also think that it is shady for dealers to buy coins, tweak them to deceive and to sell them at unseemly profit. At some point ethics might have a chance to sneak in?

God be praised that someone (Vicky) is actually seeing my argement in all of this. Thanks Vicky, and Colin, this is what forums are for, good debate, and yes, everyone has and can say their own opinion, as i do and did This is why i like this forum, friendly banter and good debate.

[azda 979]

Eeeeeeeeekkkkkk...................2560 pounds it closed at!!!!!!!!Readers keep alert as to if this coin shows again on the 'bay or another venue. I simply can not believe it. If real, maybe time to sell!

There was some wear to the convex shield, which brought the reverse at least, down to EF. Still a very nice coin, nonetheless, with considerable lustre. I'm not surprised it fetched £2560k.

Take a look at this one for sale at the online coin website for £3950. Still some slight wear on the shield, much more expensive, and in my view, not as nice as the e bay offering.

Here's the image for ease of reference ~ hopefully not too small

It brought roughly £1000 more than it was worth because of dishonest selling. The coin was EF or nearly so and called A UNC by the seller. The last high grade example I sold was also bought from London Coins. It was graded by them as A UNC and downgraded by me to GEF with all of the flaws mentioned (so I lost money rather than making a £1000 profit by lying).

I'm not surprised it brought £2560 either, I'm f***ing gobsmacked!!!!

Lol, remember your reply John when the 1869 sold at over 2k, notice your remark, "dishonest selling"and then the other remark "I'm f***ing gobsmacked!!!!

"

Now if it wasn't dishonest selling, i wouldn't have been trying to make my point in my 15 posts or so last night Anyway, am done now, until another comes along

Edited November 3, 2010 by azda

[Colin G. 147]

Dave prepare yourself for the solicitors letter that's about to drop on your doormat, I am claiming for repetitive strain, I have never typed so much on this forum

I agree this is definitely the one way that newbie's will see what a bunch of nutters helpful people we are on the subject

[azda 979]

Dave prepare yourself for the solicitors letter that's about to drop on your doormat, I am claiming for repetitive strain, I have never typed so much on this forum

I agree this is definitely the one way that newbie's will see what a bunch of nutters helpful people we are on the subject

Prepare for a counter suit as my posts were much longer trying to explain my reasoning lol. We should call Vicky the UN

[VickySilver 830]

Well, that might be a bit premature as I must confess to having an Achilles' heel of excitement on occasion, but usually not with coins (let nobody speak to my ex-wife!LOL!).

[davidrj 194]

Dave prepare yourself for the solicitors letter that's about to drop on your doormat, I am claiming for repetitive strain, I have never typed so much on this forum

I agree this is definitely the one way that newbie's will see what a bunch of nutters helpful people we are on the subject

Is it safe to come back in now?

David

[azda 979]

Dave prepare yourself for the solicitors letter that's about to drop on your doormat, I am claiming for repetitive strain, I have never typed so much on this forum

I agree this is definitely the one way that newbie's will see what a bunch of nutters helpful people we are on the subject

Is it safe to come back in now?

David

Of course David, come and join the friendly banter, dip your toes in if ya like

[Colin G. 147]

Sorry

[azda 979]

We should have an irritated thread, where no one comes in unless they are prepared to seriously debate, makes sense don't ya think? Get things off your chest when you're peesed off

[davidrj 194]

another demonstration of coin conservation

His other coins look equally good

David

Edited November 3, 2010 by davidrj

[RLC35 288]

That's a shame. I wonder if he cleaned it himself, or paid someone to do it! LOL! He also has a 1860 and a 1900 that look the same way!

[Peckris2 0]

Oh dear. Let me be the one to break this to you Accumulator...... [snip] .....you probably paid a FAIR price for it...

And your point is?

My point is that if inexperienced collectors believed that grading, and didn't realise it was cleaned, they could get their fingers burned. You didn't, you clearly knew when to stop bidding. But not everyone is sensible and I hate to think of newbies getting ripped off.

[VickySilver 830]

Another caveat - many coins that are technically uncirculated but with some surface toning(OK, well in some cases more than some toning)have been treated, and not obviously except that the colour looks just a little off from what one would expect of 19th C. bronze. I have seen this many times even with encapsulated coins, esp. American Indian Head and early Lincoln cents.

They are not bright pink, but are of a red/orange that just does not "seem" right. I am ashamed to say that some years ago I too bought from our favourite M.P. and have a coin that the colour is not quite right, but better now that some years have gone by. I think CGS or PCGS would slab and that it would past muster by most. I guess that makes it resaleable but does not leave me with a good feeling.

[azda 979]

I'm just wondering what he's done to that 1835 Shilling he has on ebay, looks like its been shotblasted

[Gary D 76]

Another caveat - many coins that are technically uncirculated but with some surface toning(OK, well in some cases more than some toning)have been treated, and not obviously except that the colour looks just a little off from what one would expect of 19th C. bronze. I have seen this many times even with encapsulated coins, esp. American Indian Head and early Lincoln cents.

They are not bright pink, but are of a red/orange that just does not "seem" right. I am ashamed to say that some years ago I too bought from our favourite M.P. and have a coin that the colour is not quite right, but better now that some years have gone by. I think CGS or PCGS would slab and that it would past muster by most. I guess that makes it resaleable but does not leave me with a good feeling.

I wonder if I took my collection along to him he would perk it up a bit, could do with an extra grade here and there

[VickySilver 830]

Uhh, that would only happen AFTER he bought it. LOL!

[azda 979]

He sold that 1835 Shilling for 285 GBP. I seriously wonder what people are thinking buying a coin that quite plain and clearly has been dipped/cleaned/shotblasted or whatever he's done to it.

[1949threepence 3,367]

I appreciate I'm new here, although not to collecting, but couldn't help noticing a dealer (Martin Platt) getting a particularly hard time in an earlier post. I know nothing of him except that I recently purchased the following item: 1925 Halfcrown

Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

Akmost certainly dipped, the tell tale signs are there. But a fair price for what is in IMO a GVF rather than EF coin. If you chose to re-sell, I don't think you'd lose out in the current market.

Incidentally, some of what I take to be Martin's personal collection are shown on Tony Clayton's website. None of them look dipped or in any other way tampered with ~ and he has some really good stuff.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Eeeeeeeeekkkkkk...................2560 pounds it closed at!!!!!!!!Readers keep alert as to if this coin shows again on the 'bay or another venue. I simply can not believe it. If real, maybe time to sell!

There was some wear to the convex shield, which brought the reverse at least, down to EF. Still a very nice coin, nonetheless, with considerable lustre. I'm not surprised it fetched £2560k.

Take a look at this one for sale at the online coin website for £3950. Still some slight wear on the shield, much more expensive, and in my view, not as nice as the e bay offering.

Here's the image for ease of reference ~ hopefully not too small

It brought roughly £1000 more than it was worth because of dishonest selling. The coin was EF or nearly so and called A UNC by the seller. The last high grade example I sold was also bought from London Coins. It was graded by them as A UNC and downgraded by me to GEF with all of the flaws mentioned (so I lost money rather than making a £1000 profit by lying).

I'm not surprised it brought £2560 either, I'm f***ing gobsmacked!!!!

Lol, remember your reply John when the 1869 sold at over 2k, notice your remark, "dishonest selling"and then the other remark "I'm f***ing gobsmacked!!!!

"

Now if it wasn't dishonest selling, i wouldn't have been trying to make my point in my 15 posts or so last night Anyway, am done now, until another comes along

I did make a point in my post about the example being sold in on line coins for £3950. Doesn't look markedly better than the one on e bay. Slightly more detail, yes. But no lustre.

More dishonest selling given that it's on offer for 154% more than the e bay one realised ?

I'd say not. I'd also say that 1869 pennies have amazing cache in the already highly prized & charismatic bun penny series, and any halfway decent example is going to fetch a lot of money.