what is lustre

[newgold 0]

Don't know why, but I have started collecting the threepence coin. The ones form QE2 I have been buying seem very shiny....I suppose like brand new. I have looked at them in detail and cannot see any wear on raised surfaces or scratch marks which would indicate being cleaned. What is the difference between being shiny and lustre...or have these coins been cleaned somehow?

[Chris Perkins 228]

Lustre is the shiny like new appearance that all new coins have when new and un touched.

Coin collectors and dealers can easily tell the difference between a coin posessing original lustre and an aftificial polished coin. As you know, once the original lustre has faded, it can never be brought back.

That 1963 Threepence has about full original lustre, and original lustre always tends to look about that kind of colour on threepences of EII. Although on some early George VI coins it often a different hue.

It's difficult to show you in a scan, but over time if you get a few full original lustre threepences from reputable dealers (like me for example ;-)) then you'll soon learn what they should look like.

As they are normally not expensive and normally not that widely collected (compared to other types), I would think it unlikely that your threepences have been polished. Post pics of them, and we'll see.

[mint_mark 9]

Isn't it difficult to describe?

I think lustre has several properties and it depends on they way the coins are made too. Today's new coins are much more shiny (mirror-like, reflective) than they used to be, which I think must be due to the dies that they are struck from being more highly polished. Both shiny coins and matt coins can have lustre.

So lustre isn't shininess... it's more of a glint or sparkle when you tilt the coin and look at the way the light is reflected. Also it should be uniform across the coin. Anything that is only on the high points or only in the large areas of the fields suggests polishing.

Lustre isn't brightness either... chemicals can brighten up a coin but the result looks flat and there might still be wear. Lustre can survive some circulation, so you get EF coins with lustre in the protected areas of the design (usually between the letters of the legends).

After time a patina can start to form (due to atmospheric conditions) over the lustre, leaving it a little subdued (more matt, less glinty) but still very attractive. Lustre can easily be spoiled by a fingerprint or a drop of water, especially with copper and bronze coins.

A coin with full uniform lustre usually commands a price premium (unless it's a 1967 penny ), but the most important thing I ever learned is that full lustre still doesn't imply a perfect coin... check for bagmarks (digs, scratches and edge knocks) and weakly struck areas of the design.

[Guest custard1966]

A coin dealer once described a coin to me as:

'Extremely Fine with good residual original colour ( what some call 'lustre' )'

and I think that's a good definition - it's the original colour

Over time a coins surface can react (oxidise) and its colour darkens. The coin can be made shiny again by polishing but the original colour/lustre cannot be restored.

So lustrous coins are shiny but not all shiny coins are lustrous.

[william 0]

That makes it much clearer to me now. Thank you!

[Guest custard1966]

Glad to be of assistance

I just remembered I have a 300+ page Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Numismatics and guess what?

It has no mention of the term 'lustre' at all (I think I should ask for my money back)

It does, however, define Patina as:

'the natural coloring acquired over the years by a coin'

so Patina tends to replace lustre.

(sounds like something from Greek mythology)

[william 0]

I just remembered I have a 300+ page Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Numismatics and guess what?

It has no mention of the term 'lustre' at all (I think I should ask for my money back)

It doesn't mention lustre...

Can you run that past me again?!

[mint_mark 9]

OK, in Coin yearbook's glossary it says

Lustre The sheen or bloom on the surface of an uncirculated coin resulting from the centrifugal flow of metal caused by striking.

which I must say is a detail I hadn't appreciated.

[Emperor Oli 0]

I just remembered I have a 300+ page Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Numismatics and guess what?

It has no mention of the term 'lustre' at all (I think I should ask for my money back)

Could it be American? You know these crazy Yanks have alternative names for everything British

[Sylvester 15]

Could it be American? You know these crazy Yanks have alternative names for everything British

Well the fact that he spelt Encyclopaedic with ae variant suggests it's not US.

And i know what you mean, have you ever tried to understand what the MS Grading scale is all about? And the reliance on slabbed coins.

[Emperor Oli 0]

And i know what you mean, have you ever tried to understand what the MS Grading scale is all about?

I've looked, but the multitude of different numbers confused me so I left. Our F VF EF UNC is far better.

And the reliance on slabbed coins.

I know! They all sing the praises for slabbing but I don't get what the big deal is; it's a coin in a holder. I've never seen anyone in Britain with slabbed coins at any rate.

[Guest custard1966]

It IS an American publication (cf coloring) the 'correct' spelling of Encyclopaedia was my unconscious translation.

They had neither lustre nor luster.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Aha that is rather odd. 300 pages and absolutely no mention? That's just wrong!

[Sylvester 15]

I know! They all sing the praises for slabbing but I don't get what the big deal is; it's a coin in a holder. I've never seen anyone in Britain with slabbed coins at any rate.

Don't get me wrong there's alot of anti-slabbers in the US, but even they seem to appreciate the fact the third party grading companies can act not only as a grading body but also to authenticate that the coin is real.

But like i keep saying, even on the authentification issue i think it's a bad thing to place too much trust in third parties because afterall you aren't learning to spot the fakes yourself, and thus you will always be reliant on that little box of plastic and that barcoded sticker!

Another thing that makes me want to throw the computer at these people is the assumption some make that if it's a rare coin that's not slabbed then it's obviously fake. I mean come on you people just cos it's not entombed doesn't mean it's not real.

But on the pro-side of slabbing the slabs do help to preserve the coins inside them!

[Sylvester 15]

Aha that is rather odd. 300 pages and absolutely no mention? That's just wrong!

Americans do use the term lustre though. I know cos i've argued with them about lustre and uncirculated coins.

It appears that for a coin to grade UNC in the US it has to have some lustre. But if you ask me UNC means just what it means, uncirculated!

So what about a coin that has sat on a shelf for many years, has never been in circulation but was purchased from the mint, and has been removed from it's packaging? Now the example coin lets say has sat on the same shelf for the past 40 years and has reacted with the atmosphere, thus it is now toned and has lost its lustre. In a US sense it would now grade AU only. But hang on a minute the coin has never physically circulated and is as struck, but toned... so surely it's UNC? No?

[william 0]

Americans do use the term lustre though. I know cos i've argued with them about lustre and uncirculated coins.

It appears that for a coin to grade UNC in the US it has to have some lustre. But if you ask me UNC means just what it means, uncirculated!

So what about a coin that has sat on a shelf for many years, has never been in circulation but was purchased from the mint, and has been removed from it's packaging? Now the example coin lets say has sat on the same shelf for the past 40 years and has reacted with the atmosphere, thus it is now toned and has lost its lustre. In a US sense it would now grade AU only. But hang on a minute the coin has never physically circulated and is as struck, but toned... so surely it's UNC? No?

Did you by any chance argue with them about it on Coinpeople?

I wholly agree, Sylvester; UNC must mean that a coin has never been into circulation. A coin may have never been into circulation and lost all its original lustre as it develops a tone, but it is still Unc. Lustre is just an exra 'bonus' which some coins have, but every coin will lose its lustre eventually.

Bloody yanks...

[Sylvester 15]

Did you by any chance argue with them about it on Coinpeople?

Yes you've caught me out!

You know sometimes i think the purpose of Americans is just observe what everyone else has been doing for years and then to do the opposite. And then have the cheek to turn around and say its the world that's wrong, and the Yanks thought it up first!

Ever thought why they play baseball and basketball and American football as their national sports? It's because they'll never get really defeated that way, now if soccar was their national sport, or rugby...

[william 0]

Ever thought why they play baseball and basketball and American football as their national sports? It's because they'll never get really defeated that way, now if soccar was their national sport, or rugby... 

Don't even go there!!

[Emperor Oli 0]

Maybe its a thing to distance themselves from their colonial masters by doing the same things differently. Like calling a pavement a sidewalk or a lift an elevator

[Sylvester 15]

Maybe its a thing to distance themselves from their colonial masters by doing the same things differently. Like calling a pavement a sidewalk or a lift an elevator

I think you have a point, perhaps that's why they worship their flag so much, it's a way of saying 'look we are separte, we ain't British, look we've got our own flag... uhuh... er'

Then again they're only jealous cos ours looks nicer.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Yeah it resonates power and might muahahaha. Plus we have a person to salute instead of a flag which obviously makes us saner (if that's a word)

[william 0]

Yes, I agree. We have Britannia too, don't forget!