Proof dies for circulation coins?

[German 0]

Dear colleagues, sorry for boring you with a (probably) stupid questions, but ... Hope you'll forgive my extremal activity

I'm not sure, but I've heard about used proof dies at Royal Mint - after strucking proof mintage this dies usually had been used for strucking circulation coins. But pairs ALWAYS had been separated. So, if we have struck by former proof die at obverse, we'll have usual reverse etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've seen a lot of such coins - can't say 'hoard' but 10-15 at last year - I'm speaking about Victory age. But I've seen similar 1832 farthing as well - full mirror field at obverse and usual reverse.

Take a look at the picture please - as you can see this coins is graded by NGC experts as MS-63.

It's really circulation coin - not a proof. Not polished planchet, single struck. But looks like it strucked by 2 proof dies - obverse and reverse. I'm not sure, but 99% it's true. Matt relief, mirror field at both sides.

as we can see by obvers - very old (used) die was used for this struck - leon's eyes almost not visible and it's not trace of circulation - this shilling has a perfect, almost clean field with a bright mirror.

How can you explain this fact?

thank you and sorry if this question has been discussed here before

[Rob 3,152]

The obverse letters at the top of the coin don't look to be of proof quality. The start of the legend at VICTORIA looks good, but it degenerates at the top. Certainly appears to be a polished die. The rims don't appear to be good enough, but you can't tell in a slab, and although almost certainly uncirculated, I'm not sure I would give it a mint state rating because there appears to be a trace of rub on a couple high spots of the veil and there are a few scuffs.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Rob

[German 0]

The obverse letters at the top of the coin don't look to be of proof quality. The start of the legend at VICTORIA looks good, but it degenerates at the top. Certainly appears to be a polished die. The rims don't appear to be good enough, but you can't tell in a slab, and although almost certainly uncirculated, I'm not sure I would give it a mint state rating because there appears to be a trace of rub on a couple high spots of the veil and there are a few scuffs.

thank you for a extremely fast replay!

absolutely agree - the letters is 'dancing' but was it common occurrence when coins strucked by a polished dies? and please note - die not polished only - it has strong matt relief too

Rob, what can you say about this coin? Obverse a little bit turbid, but still has a strong mirror field. Reverse is great for me

thanks a lot for your help

Edited January 30, 2007 by German

[Rob 3,152]

It does have a proof look about it, although again, you don't normally find excess metal on proof rims. It is possible however that standards were allowed to slip for the 1887 pieces as so many were produced.

[German 0]

very nice

BTW here's edges of usual DF and of presented on a previous photo - same year-type

thanks a lot, Rob

[Rob 3,152]

very nice

BTW here's edges of usual DF and of presented on a previous photo - same year-type

thanks a lot, Rob

I don't have a proof double florin so can't say for certain, but the milling looks similar on both. Above is a scan comparing the milling on a currency and proof 1887 6d. As you can see, the milling on the proof is considerably sharper and is actually quite sharp to touch. This would lead me to say not a proof.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Rob

[German 0]

Hmm.. Edges seems to be absolutely different - take a look at attached image. Not only by milling style, but also by shape. Moreover that on right side is little bit thicker for me.

very interesting situation with this double florin - 4 experts have seen it in a real life and only one of them said that it's impaired proof. 3 experts said it's real proof. also I've send photo of this coin to a very famous and respected expert via email and after he get photo of edge he said in't no dubt proof too

well I still haven't my own opinion about this coin