Charles I Unite?

[Brianess 0]

I was asked to sell the coin pictured below which I believe is a Charles I Unite, but my reference material does not go back beyond 1700 and I can find no other references in the internet. When I found this forum, I figured a few of your members may be able to help.

Here's hoping this is real and not somebody's fantasy piece.

It is approximately 35mm diameter and weighs approximately 10 grams. It is a thin planchet.

Any information will be appreciated. Including, of course, year of issue, gold content and current value.

Thank you.

Brianess

[josie 8]

I dont know here is the link with picture and we will wait from the expert.

http://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?...&search=britain

[Chris Perkins 228]

It's Scottish, A Briot milled coin. Looks real enough, but that picture is quite small. I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Rob 3,152]

I was asked to sell the coin pictured below which I believe is a Charles I Unite, but my reference material does not go back beyond 1700 and I can find no other references in the internet. When I found this forum, I figured a few of your members may be able to help.

Here's hoping this is real and not somebody's fantasy piece.

It is approximately 35mm diameter and weighs approximately 10 grams. It is a thin planchet.

Any information will be appreciated. Including, of course, year of issue, gold content and current value.

Thank you.

Brianess

First of all it is a Scottish Unit produced from 1637-42 by Nicholas Briot. The size is correct for a unite and the weight seems about right for a Scottish Unit. Spinks 2nd edition gives a price in VF of £1500, but that was 2003 and prices have increased since then. Coincraft gave a figure of £2400 in 1999. The picture isn't good enough to establish how much wear there actually is, but it certainly is VF and probably good VF so will be worth in excess of £2000. An example of this coin sold at DNW on 28/9/06 lot 986 for £2200 + premium of 17.625%. It was about extremely fine, but had been cleaned at some time and had scratches. This therefore seems a reasonable ballpark figure. I don't have exact figures for purity, but it will be about .915, i.e. 91.5% gold with the balance made up of most likely copper or silver.

All of this comes with the caveat that first of all, it would be necessary to establish that it is genuine

Edited April 15, 2007 by Rob

[Hussulo 6]

Very nice coin.

[Brianess 0]

Here is a larger picture. I hope it's easier to see the details. I don't know how big a picture I can post here and don't want to over do it. The original is about 16" wide.

With a possible value of what Rob wrote, it would be in my best interest to get this certified or at least examined to see if it is genuine. I believe it is, but other people would like to know when I go to sell it. Anybody have a recommendation on who to send it to or where I can find information to make the required arrangements?

[Geordie582 18]

I don't know where you live, but I have found that local museums are very helpful - in my case, putting me in touch with their 'consultant numismatist' who proved really helpful. Worth a try?

[Brianess 0]

I don't know where you live, but I have found that local museums are very helpful - in my case, putting me in touch with their 'consultant numismatist' who proved really helpful. Worth a try?

That's good information and I feel foolish I didn't think of it. I'm retired and live in a small town in western Massachusettes, USA, my son lives in New York City so that may be a good start. I'll ask him.

[Rob 3,152]

I would like to revise the grade upwards to EF on the obverse with the reverse nearly there. With the exception of a few marks on the orb it looks pretty much as struck. I hope the round mark by the first S on the reverse is not a repaired piercing.

[Brianess 0]

I would like to revise the grade upwards to EF on the obverse with the reverse nearly there. With the exception of a few marks on the orb it looks pretty much as struck. I hope the round mark by the first S on the reverse is not a repaired piercing.

Since you mentioned it, I took a closer look and on the obverse at that point is the G of DG. It looks at though something had dropped on it, but didn't pierce it. It is just a small bump on the reverse at the S. But all the more reason to have it checked by the professionals.

Thanks for your help, Rob, and thanks to everyone who gave me information today. It really helps a lot.

[Rob 3,152]

I would like to revise the grade upwards to EF on the obverse with the reverse nearly there. With the exception of a few marks on the orb it looks pretty much as struck. I hope the round mark by the first S on the reverse is not a repaired piercing.

Since you mentioned it, I took a closer look and on the obverse at that point is the G of DG. It looks at though something had dropped on it, but didn't pierce it. It is just a small bump on the reverse at the S. But all the more reason to have it checked by the professionals.

Thanks for your help, Rob, and thanks to everyone who gave me information today. It really helps a lot.

Usually when it's small and round it's an attempted piercing because it requires quite a bit of force aimed at one point to make this type of mark. This won't help it's value, though in that grade will still be desirable and an attempted piercing would give further credibility to it being genuine as this was usually contemporary. You might struggle to find someone in the States who is familiar with this coinage. The grading companies make a lot of mistakes on British coins ranging from inaccurate grading through to inaccurate attribution with cases known of cleaned, artificially toned and forgeries - so I would give them a miss despite their claims. This is basically down to not being familiar with the coins they are looking at. What you need is someone who can tie the dies to known genuine pieces at the microscopic level.

If you know how and where it was acquired it would be helpful as this would possibly lead to a provenance which could be checked against old sales catalogues. It looks good enough to have been in a few quality collections and high enough in grade to be illustrated.

[Brianess 0]

I would like to revise the grade upwards to EF on the obverse with the reverse nearly there. With the exception of a few marks on the orb it looks pretty much as struck. I hope the round mark by the first S on the reverse is not a repaired piercing.

Since you mentioned it, I took a closer look and on the obverse at that point is the G of DG. It looks at though something had dropped on it, but didn't pierce it. It is just a small bump on the reverse at the S. But all the more reason to have it checked by the professionals.

Thanks for your help, Rob, and thanks to everyone who gave me information today. It really helps a lot.

Usually when it's small and round it's an attempted piercing because it requires quite a bit of force aimed at one point to make this type of mark. This won't help it's value, though in that grade will still be desirable and an attempted piercing would give further credibility to it being genuine as this was usually contemporary. You might struggle to find someone in the States who is familiar with this coinage. The grading companies make a lot of mistakes on British coins ranging from inaccurate grading through to inaccurate attribution with cases known of cleaned, artificially toned and forgeries - so I would give them a miss despite their claims. This is basically down to not being familiar with the coins they are looking at. What you need is someone who can tie the dies to known genuine pieces at the microscopic level.

If you know how and where it was acquired it would be helpful as this would possibly lead to a provenance which could be checked against old sales catalogues. It looks good enough to have been in a few quality collections and high enough in grade to be illustrated.

I do appreciate your help and I will check further with the owner. It belonged to his uncle but he passed a way a few years ago and from what I've seen of other items I've been asked to sell, there doesn't seem to be very good record keeping or what there was was lost or trashed, but I'll check to be sure. I'll post again when I get more information.

[scottishmoney 29]

Actually in the USA a well known British specialist is Allan Davisson, he briefly owned the gold Coenwulf penny. Right now I cannot find his website though, apparently it has been taken down - they are not big on the internet thing.

[Brianess 0]

Actually in the USA a well known British specialist is Allan Davisson, he briefly owned the gold Coenwulf penny. Right now I cannot find his website though, apparently it has been taken down - they are not big on the internet thing.

Thanks, I'll try to look him up. Any idea where he lives or has an office? Is he in New York by any chance?

[Rob 3,152]

Actually in the USA a well known British specialist is Allan Davisson, he briefly owned the gold Coenwulf penny. Right now I cannot find his website though, apparently it has been taken down - they are not big on the internet thing.

Forgot about Allan. His email address is coins@britishcoins.com. This worked a couple of months ago.

He is based in Cold Spring Minnesota, phone number is xxx.xxx.xxxx

note: edited out phone number

Edited April 15, 2007 by scottishmoney

[Brianess 0]

Actually in the USA a well known British specialist is Allan Davisson, he briefly owned the gold Coenwulf penny. Right now I cannot find his website though, apparently it has been taken down - they are not big on the internet thing.

Forgot about Allan. His email address is coins@britishcoins.com. This worked a couple of months ago.

He is based in Cold Spring Minnesota, phone number is xxx.xxx.xxxx

Great, I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says.

Thanks.

Note: edited out phone number.

[Brianess 0]

Actually in the USA a well known British specialist is Allan Davisson, he briefly owned the gold Coenwulf penny. Right now I cannot find his website though, apparently it has been taken down - they are not big on the internet thing.

Forgot about Allan. His email address is coins@britishcoins.com. This worked a couple of months ago.

He is based in Cold Spring Minnesota, phone number is xxx.xxx.xxxx

Great, I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says.

Thanks.

Again thanks. His web site is http://www.britishcoins.com/. In Part 6: Scottish,Irish, item 195, he shows one just like the one I have. I'll be writing him tonight.

Thanks for all your help.

Brian.

Note: edited out phone number.

[Rob 3,152]

Not sure why Scottishmoney removed his phone number as it is freely given on his website and in his auction catalogues and worked ok recently. It's a business number as opposed to a private one.