Shilling Elizabeth I

[Stechlin 0]

I need some help with a Shilling from the reign under Elisabeth I. As you can see in the added pictures, the obverse legend is as following: ELIZABETH:D:G:AN:FR:ET:HI:REGINA. The reverse legend - POSVI:DEU:ADIVTOREM MEU would fit to the Fifth Issue. But: I can't find this kind of the obverse legend (AN instead of ANG; FR instead of FRA(N); HI instead of HIB).

So I need the help of the experts.

The weight of the coin is 85,6 grain (5,55 gramm), the size fits perfectly to the Shilling-pictures in Spink and Coincraft. I think, it is a variety, thats just not listed in the forementioned catalogues. I'm greatful for every answer.

Holger

[Stechlin 0]

Now the reverse of the coin:

[HistoricCoinage 146]

The mintmark is a Martlet, this signifies that it is of the Second issue, therefore of 1560-1 and so either Spink 2555 or 2555A but the portrait is too worn for me to tell.

Kindest Regards,

Clive.

[Rob 3,152]

The mintmark is a Martlet, this signifies that it is of the Second issue, therefore of 1560-1 and so either Spink 2555 or 2555A but the portrait is too worn for me to tell.

Kindest Regards,

Clive.

Based on the hair profile it is bust 3C (S2555)

[Stechlin 0]

The mintmark is a Martlet, this signifies that it is of the Second issue, therefore of 1560-1 and so either Spink 2555 or 2555A but the portrait is too worn for me to tell.

Kindest Regards,

Clive.

Yes! Thank You

[Stechlin 0]

The mintmark is a Martlet, this signifies that it is of the Second issue, therefore of 1560-1 and so either Spink 2555 or 2555A but the portrait is too worn for me to tell.

Kindest Regards,

Clive.

Based on the hair profile it is bust 3C (S2555)

Great!! I think, you are right! Thanks

[Stechlin 0]

Thanks a lot!! Yes, it seems to be a Shilling from the Second Issue. But what still irritates me is the not in Spink or Coincraft listed obverse legend. By the way: The drawn picture of the martlet in Coincraft seems to be wrong, because the martlet is looking to the right instead of looking to the left, as it is correctly shown in Spink.

In Coincraft the reverse legend is described with POSUI DEU ADIUTOREM MEU with a modern “U†in “ADIUTOREMâ€. In fact the discussed coin has the old “V†instead of the modern “U†in “ADIVTOREMâ€. For the Fifth Issue it is described with the a “Vâ€. That is the reason I wrote, that the reverse legend would fit to the Fifth Issue. But I have some others Elisabeth shillings here from a friend, there is no modern “U†neither in “ADIVTOREM†nor in other words of the legends with U. So most probably another fault in the Coincraft description. I don’t know, but meanwhile I think, that there are no coins from that time with a modern “U†in the legends.

Once again, thanks a lot and see you soon.

Holger

[Rob 3,152]

Thanks a lot!! Yes, it seems to be a Shilling from the Second Issue. But what still irritates me is the not in Spink or Coincraft listed obverse legend. By the way: The drawn picture of the martlet in Coincraft seems to be wrong, because the martlet is looking to the right instead of looking to the left, as it is correctly shown in Spink.

In Coincraft the reverse legend is described with POSUI DEU ADIUTOREM MEU with a modern “U†in “ADIUTOREMâ€. In fact the discussed coin has the old “V†instead of the modern “U†in “ADIVTOREMâ€. For the Fifth Issue it is described with the a “Vâ€. That is the reason I wrote, that the reverse legend would fit to the Fifth Issue. But I have some others Elisabeth shillings here from a friend, there is no modern “U†neither in “ADIVTOREM†nor in other words of the legends with U. So most probably another fault in the Coincraft description. I don’t know, but meanwhile I think, that there are no coins from that time with a modern “U†in the legends.

Once again, thanks a lot and see you soon.

Holger

It is quite normal for the legend variety not to be listed in coincraft or Spink etc. There is rarely space available for the title in full, so varying degrees of abbreviation were used with the larger flans typically having fuller legends. Depending on the period in question, ET may also appear as Z or IACOBVS may be contracted to IACOB9. The contraction marks following an abbreviation may be colons, an apostrophe above a stop or a single stop. The dies were all produced individually without the benefits of modern techniques of reproduction, and so the actual abbreviation depended on the whim of the person responsible. This means that D(EI) G(RATIA) M(AGN) B(RITT) F(RANC) ET H(IBER) will appear in varying combinations with longer or shorter titles. There are also instances of the abbreviated regal name and I have an Elizabeth I shilling with the obverse legend ending in REGIN without the A. A quick look at Brooker will give an indication of the legend varieties encountered for Charles I. A similar situation exists for reverse legends and so a full listing of legend varieties together with die combinations in the general tomes would be impractical. If you want a definitive list of legend and die combinations, it is necessary to refer to relevant papers in journals etc.

The modern U I think first appeared in the later issues of George II. It's use in Coincraft is slightly misleading, but previous writers had also used this (including North) and so is one of the points to remember. The martlet mark was used from Henry VII until Elizabeth I and may conceivably exist in both left and right forms. Perhaps someone could shed some light on this.

[scottishmoney 29]

Affirming what Rob has said about varieties not being listed in Spink or Seaby, this is actually not uncommon. I have several Scottish coins which are not listed, some very rare and trade as such, but given their space allowances etc. they do not catalogue them. With a long reigned monarch like QEI and the growth of commerce during that time, coupled with sound advice from her advisors, coinage emerged into something of an art form with many technical advances ie the screw press of Eloye Mestrelle, and new designs. So varieties are fairly common.

In terms of collectability, the reign of QEI is unparalleled with English monarchs as far as the range of coinage to collect. The coins for the most part are very well designed, well minted, and are reminders that Queen Elizabeth recognised that her coinage was very impressionable on the populace - often it was the only connection to common people with the government.

Also, having numerous references, especially those that are older, helps. I can do cross comparisons betwixt Spink and Coincraft, and am for my website, but even so far I am finding stuff that doesn't match for reference varieties.