1) GB Pennies from 1841 etc and 2) outside UK sellers

[Stechlin 0]

Hi

What do you think of that?

Two experiences I made as a German collector of British coins:

First one: I was interested in an 1847 Penny (in that stage no matter if it is a far colon or a near colon variety) because the only one I own, is in only “Poor†condition. In my example of Chris CC GB (to be true, from 2007), this coin is valued (independent of far colon or near colon): F: 5, VF 18, EF 45, Unc/BU 100/220. As far as I can see meanwhile nearly all the Pennies from the 1840ies are quite difficult to get, with the exception of the 1841 Penny (with no colon after REG). For some dates of those Pennies you will fail in finding any offers at ebay at all worldwide for months. So I was very glad having found an 1847 Penny, although this one I would grade only somewhere in between poor and fine. But as a matter of fact (and being drunk, I’m afraid) I made a bit of 57 GBP for that Penny, just because it was better than mine. But I was outbid, this stupid Penny was sold for 58 GBP! Take a look:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...W:IT&ih=015

A few days later, another 1847 Penny was offered and I bought this one for 28,05 € (in words: Euro) from a German seller. Not a really good one, but obviously better than the one I failed to get in the auction before.

Look at:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...N:IT&ih=006

Second one: I sold an 1871 Penny at ebay a few months ago, I would have graded that one as “Nearly Fineâ€. It was bought from a UK bidder for about 20 GBP. Having received my coin, he offered that in ebay.uk (using my picture!) immediately again and it was sold for about 40 GBP (If I’m remembering that right, this bid was to low for his reserve).

So, my questions in two parts:

1) The first one to Chris and to the collectors of 1 Penny coins from the 1840ies. Do you think, my impression is right, that the prices for Pennies being strucked in the 1840ies have risen quite heavily in the last 2 or 3 years (in general).

2) The second one (in fact more questions) especially to potential UK bidders, who think about bidding for coins from a German (outside UK) seller:

When you are checking ebay (or other sources) as a potential UK bidder: Do you search only in offers from UK sellers or do you search including offers in the EU or worldwide? This question is not really directed to the specialists (Rob, Historic Coinage, Scottishmoney, Geordie, just examples), but more to all the others – non “professionalsâ€.

If you find a coin you are interested in (this question directed to the “professionals†too) from a German seller, does the location of the seller (and of course the coin) has any influence in your bid? Do you perhaps distrust (perhaps only a little bit) in a) German sellers or other sellers outside the UK in general – any bad experiences -? or just do you distrust the German Post or others? Influence of how many positive feedbacks this German (or any other outside UK) seller has? I have bought my British coins from all over the world (of course most of all inside the UK) and never had a problem at all.

As a German collector of British coins (especially Pennies), every true answer to my questions would be very helpful and I will not argue, if those answers are not politically correct, be sure.

See you soon

Holger

P.S. At the moment I’m searching for a QV Sovereign with a young head obverse and a shield on the reverse in a good condition (in that case I don’t care about the date and the mint location). Lots of offers worldwide, but I will wait for an offer of a German seller. Clever, isn’t it!?

[RLC35 289]

Holger,

You are correct about the 1840's Pennies. They have skyrocketed in the past few years, especially the 1845-1846, and 1849.

I expanded my penny collection backward from 1860 a few years ago, and got a rude awakening when I puchased the above three (3) coins. If you don't already have an 1849, you are really going to get sticker shock when you try to buy one. They are far higher than Spink's, etc. Chris's CCGB for 2008 has the most realistic pricing for those three coins.

Good luck in your search.

Bob C.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Yes, the prices are too low in CCGB for 1840s pennies. I've been told about this.

As an Englishman in Germany I always try to hush my location a bit. I think people imagine it to be enormous hassle buying things from abroad and the other way around; some are no doubt distrusting (I've had people refuse to send me very low value items) but I think some are just put off by the perceived extra 'hassle'. Some people still think that a customs declaration has to be stuck on the envelope and of course they all think the post between Germany and the UK is going to take at least a month to arrive as if they march it over on horse back with spiked helmets or something ;-)

And they think it will be massively expensive too, when in reality it isn't and many of my customers don't notice they've bought something from Germany until it turns up very promptly with German stamps on the envelope (and then they often purchased again).

Selling things is the easiest part. They get sent off and always arrive unless the Royal Mail cock up at their end (and the parcel ends up returned to me). Getting people to send things to me can be a struggle. I suppose it's logical....why send 'valuables' abroad when you could probably find someone nearer and in the UK and have less postal worries. I'll touch wood while I say this, but no coins have ever gone missing that I've been sent or sent out (to and from the UK). Obviously for Italy, Russia and Poland the situation is a bit different!

[scottishmoney 51]

I will offer that I have only very occasionally looked at eBay.de, unless I am looking for something German, recently Aureus Magnus gold medals. I would never look there for British coins. But even at looking for the medals, there is a bit of a language issue for me. My command of the German language is laughable at best.

The only other eBays I look at and haunt regularly are the UK(foreign for me) and the Netherlands and Spain. I understand written Dutch, and can speak a little bit. Spanish is a strong second language for me, and I collect Spanish banknotes so Spanish is a must in dealing with Spanish eBay.

Maybe if you want to sell British coins, you might say you are in Heligoland or something, that way some might actually think you are on what they believe is still part of the British realm, even though it reverted to Germany in 1888 and is I think a part of Hansestadt Hamburg now.

The pennies from that era are so temptation, they are big, beautiful and just ooze Britannia in all her glories. That is why they are becoming pricey. Early Victorian, spesh the Godless and Gothics are so inviting even to me, they are the loveliest of British coins.

[Colin G. 147]

With regards to the pennies, have not got a clue!! I am very blinkered towards farthings (maybe too much) so am not fully up to date with prices on other denominations.

As for buying, I look for coins from anywhere, and tend to look more at the impression I get from the sellers feedback, descriptions etc. I look more in the feedback for names of other ebay collectors I know when buying from "dealers", therefore if they were happy with the service, it should be the same for me.

If it is a private sale from someone who would not normally deal in coins, i bid accordingly and take the chance. Very few problems to date, and tend to get better deals abroad.

I tend to sell anywhere and then if I encounter bad experiences with the post etc, alter my approach. I have to say the only bad experiences I have to date post wise have been with Russia and Spain. It is mainly the UK postal service that cause me grief!!

The best (worst) one was a high value coin sent to Italy, that was not received, but it had been sent insured. It took me a while to start getting answers from Royal Mail, and eventually they tracked the coin down in Washington DC!! It had got on the wrong plane. Coin was returned and re-sent to buyer, who was very understanding.

[Red Riley 2]

I have never looked at anything other than the UK ebay site or if I am desperate for something, the US as well. No reason, just a little lazy I guess and I have always felt that the chances of getting what I wanted in any of the European sites is very low indeed.

Re 1840s pennies, I now only want 1849 and 1860/59 for (what I would regard as) the complete set of British copper/bronze pennies. 1860/59s are a known quantity - i.e too expensive for me and almost none in lower grade to cut the cost (if anyone has one for sale, I may still however be interested...). 1849s just never seem to come up in acceptable condition/price as a result of which I have given up looking, but you are right, anything 1840s other than perhaps 1841 or 1844 are worth a king's ransom and I suspect at least two of these 1847 and 1848 just aren't that rare. It just seems that the perception of 1840s pennies as being almost universally rare has pushed up the value of virtually everything.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Red Riley,

I do believe I have an 1860/59 kicking about somewhere (in England). It's lowish grade so may well be up your street. I'll try to get its current custodian to send me pictures of it.

Did you get my recent emails? The cover chap is wanting to push on with the cover design.

[Red Riley 2]

Red Riley,

I do believe I have an 1860/59 kicking about somewhere (in England). It's lowish grade so may well be up your street. I'll try to get its current custodian to send me pictures of it.

Did you get my recent emails? The cover chap is wanting to push on with the cover design.

Hi Chris,

Let me have details of the 1860/59 when you can.

Since I now work (I know, I know...), I have been waiting for the weekend and good natural light to take a few photos. Hopefully I can get back to you early next week.

[RLC35 289]

Red,

Here is the 1849 I mentioned to you.

Bob C.

[Stechlin 0]

Hi!

Well, as always highly interesting answers, thanks a lot once again.

1) There is nothing more to say about the development of prices in 1840ies Pennies. “They have skyrocketed“as Bob said so nice.

2) Checking ebay offers outside the UK:

Yes, I expected that most of the UK collectors don’t look for offers from abroad. I’m sure, a lot of collectors don’t even think about it. I think that Chris has listed the most important reasons for that behaviour. But of course, the other main - more rational - reason is that no interesting offers are expected from outside the UK, what is an error in my opinion (see later on). Nice idea, scottishmoney, to offer my coins as a Helgoland seller, haha. To be true, I tried to use ebay.uk to offer my coins (not more than 10 up to date), but unfortunately ebay is not as stupid as I thought. Ebay recognized my location in Germany (not Helgoland), and my offers could not be found in ebay.uk, until you use the “EU-Offers†or “worldwide†in the search program. And how can I fake ebay, I’m living in Helgoland – or at least the coin is living there-? – I will do, if I can!

But: You are wrong! 2 examples: The first one I can’t prove: I bought my example of an 1849 Penny (the other one I have can only be identified under a microscope picture) about 3 or 4 months ago from an Australian! seller. Unfortunately, I haven’t noticed the price and I’m unable to restore the auction at ebay, but I’m quite sure, I paid 110 AUD, what means about 54 £. In this time, I made only 2 higher successfully bids than that one, and I remember those exactly (one of the unsuccessfully bids was the one for the fore mentioned 1847 Penny). What I do remember, that I was really astonished, to get the coin for a price far underneath 100 €. For the condition of that penny look at the picture (only the obverse, the reverse is at a similar condition). Judge for yourself, if you think I have paid too much.

The second one – not that spectacular – is easy to prove. I bought that 1860 Penny for 2,50 € tonight http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...N:IT&ih=016 ( if that link doesn’t work, look at the article number: 260242498312 ). I don’t know the variety, because the scan is too bad and I’m not an expert in the Victorian bronze coinage, especially not in all the varieties of the 1860 and 1861 Pennies (although I started as a bronze coinage Penny date runner collector and I own a few 1860 and 1861 Pennies. I will check them in my next life). But whatever it is, it would have found a UK bidder for more than 2,50 €, if it has been listed there, right?

P.S. 1: To Chris: I’ve started to read “England’s Striking History†tonight. What a great book!!! I will write a statement to that one in the right forum.

P.S. 2: To Colin: You made me a poor man tonight! I don’t have any money left to buy farthings from you!

P.S. 3: To Gary B: Still alive? Without your helps I would never have been developed to a quite serious Victorian Penny Collector. To all potential German starters (and coming experts) in collecting British coins: Keep on this website, but don’t miss Garys: http://www.britt-coins.de/index.html (in Deutscher Sprache!!)

P.S. 4: To scottishmoney (descent of William Wallace under cover, as I know meanwhile). “The pennies from that era are so temptation, they are big, beautiful and just ooze Britannia in all her glories. That is why they are becoming pricey. Early Victorian, spesh the Godless and Gothics are so inviting even to me, they are the loveliest of British coins. “ To say it with Meatloaf: “You took the words right out of my mouthâ€

S.y.s.

Holger

[Stechlin 0]

Looks like I've missed to add the picture of my 1849 Penny.

[Red Riley 2]

Looks like I've missed to add the picture of my 1849 Penny.

Whilst I have obviously seen better Victorian copper pennies, in the current state of the market that represents a real bargain. The fact that you bought it from Australia makes me wonder if, like 1827s, the bulk of the mintage was transported there, only to be lost over time in the outback.

[scottishmoney 51]

P.S. 4: To scottishmoney (descent of William Wallace under cover, as I know meanwhile). “The pennies from that era are so temptation, they are big, beautiful and just ooze Britannia in all her glories. That is why they are becoming pricey. Early Victorian, spesh the Godless and Gothics are so inviting even to me, they are the loveliest of British coins. “ To say it with Meatloaf: “You took the words right out of my mouthâ€

S.y.s.

Holger

Sorry, I only stole the Anglish words, nae the German ones, my German is limited to asking for fraulein und bier bitte.

[Colin G. 147]

P.S. 2: To Colin: You made me a poor man tonight! I don’t have any money left to buy farthings from you!

Holger

Ah but you have now got an excellent book that will earn back its money if you ever decide to sell, and I can look for some new farthings

[TomGoodheart 447]

As a 'specialist' collector, I look far and wide for my coins. I have bought many internationally and I have no idea why Germany should be any worse (?) than anywhere else. I bought a very scarce variation from a chap that picked it up as part of a job lot in Germany. I look internationally because few of the rare varieties are recognised there and so there's always a chance of finding something new for cheap!

I had a minor hassle with a coin from a German auction house (WAG), but only because I hadn't realised I'd have to pay by bank transfer. Once I got over my anxiety my building society accomodated my request quite happily.

In terms of grading I use the photos. Even with UK sellers I generally ignore their view of grade and condition. I'm the one that is going to have to live with the coin, after all.

I have never had problems with post. The only hiccup I remember was when poor Antony Wilson sent me a coin to my Royal Mail PO Box via parcel post. Because of the separation of the Royal Mail and Parcelforce, without his excellent assistance my coin would have slipped into some limbo. But I have never had a coin lost, nor a seller renege on a deal.

As for language. I have always found sellers in Europe to have excellent English. If I'm really not sure, I don't bid. But that goes for anywhere, doesn't it?

Edited May 31, 2008 by TomGoodheart

[HistoricCoinage 160]

I bought two coins from the States and the guy sent it to my PO Box too, but Parcel Force sent me a letter asking me to pick it up or arrange redelivery, not bad! Free redelivery too!!

I mainly deal with people in the UK, but US, Australia, France, Belgium, Canada and Germany are frequent customers/sellers to me. I haven't had any major problems with international transactions apart from one to Saudi Arabia...

As with Royal Mail, I have quite a few problems with them but I always get my compensation so it's not too bad.

I agree with Richard, you can pick up some very rare coins from international sellers as they often cannot ID the coin exactly, it's usually only to a denomination and a monarch so I can pick up a bargain in regards to mint, class, moneyer etc...

Cheers,

Clive.

[scottishmoney 51]

I agree with Richard, you can pick up some very rare coins from international sellers as they often cannot ID the coin exactly, it's usually only to a denomination and a monarch so I can pick up a bargain in regards to mint, class, moneyer etc...

Cheers,

Clive.

Yeppers, just bought a rare 1904 Louisiana Expo medal from a seller in the UK, the postage is a bit of a killer, but I got a very nicely original toned medal for a third of the price I would have paid had it been on a USA auction site. I am a particularly happy boy, been looking for one for quite a while an' will post pictures of it whence it arrives. It has the original box, paperwork etc. And I wonder how it ended up in Britain? But coming home at last at last.

[scottishmoney 51]

As a 'specialist' collector, I look far and wide for my coins. I have bought many internationally and I have no idea why Germany should be any worse (?) than anywhere else. I bought a very scarce variation from a chap that picked it up as part of a job lot in Germany. I look internationally because few of the rare varieties are recognised there and so there's always a chance of finding something new for cheap!

I had a minor hassle with a coin from a German auction house (WAG), but only because I hadn't realised I'd have to pay by bank transfer. Once I got over my anxiety my building society accomodated my request quite happily.

In terms of grading I use the photos. Even with UK sellers I generally ignore their view of grade and condition. I'm the one that is going to have to live with the coin, after all.

I have never had problems with post. The only hiccup I remember was when poor Antony Wilson sent me a coin to my Royal Mail PO Box via parcel post. Because of the separation of the Royal Mail and Parcelforce, without his excellent assistance my coin would have slipped into some limbo. But I have never had a coin lost, nor a seller renege on a deal.

As for language. I have always found sellers in Europe to have excellent English. If I'm really not sure, I don't bid. But that goes for anywhere, doesn't it?

Oh gees, if one of my Antony Wilson purchased coins went astray, I might have to go postal!

I know of buyers in Europe that do seem to find more issues with sellers on eBay.de than any other site. I don't know, I have never bought anything from a seller in Germany, save a CD recently, but never coins. I buy easily 75% of my materiel from sellers in Great Britain, some from expat Brits in Portugal and Spain, and occasionally Netherlands. I have dealt with people all over the world, and so far have only ever had issues with American sellers.