British encapsulated Coins

[Chingford 166]

I have come across a number of Encapsulated British Coins in my Ebay searches, that the grade given to the coin is no where near the visible condition.

In most cases the organisations are unknown to me, are these capsules available for general purchase and dealers encapsulating and grading these coins themselves? or can these capsules be opened and reused, the original coin graded being swapped out.

I'll post a couple of links when I next come across one.

[Hussulo 6]

I have come across a number of Encapsulated British Coins in my Ebay searches, that the grade given to the coin is no where near the visible condition.

In most cases the organisations are unknown to me, are these capsules available for general purchase and dealers encapsulating and grading these coins themselves? or can these capsules be opened and reused, the original coin graded being swapped out.

I'll post a couple of links when I next come across one.

Some of the slabbed coins like the one below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREAT-BRITAIN-1953-1-S...1QQcmdZViewItem

are slabbed by a dealer. It is very easy to buy slabs and print your own labels and grade the coins yourself.

You could try and open a slab and swap the label but they are sonically sealed and the chances are there would be evidence of tampering. The latest is fake coins being slabbed in fake NGC/ PCGS slabs coming out of China.

http://coins.about.com/b/2008/03/28/pcgs-w...-fake-slabs.htm

The main TGP's (Third Party Grading Services) are PCGS, NGC, and to some extent ANACS and ICG. ANACS were the first to start it. ANACS began grading coins in 1972. ANACS was as part of the ANA, American Numismatic Association, until 1990.

You are correct about the US grading standards. It is generally excepted that US grading is not as strict as UK grading.

In most cases MS 60-63 which is unc. in US equated to EF to EF+ by UK standards, AU US equates to VF to VF+ UK (and in some cases not even). MS 64 and up, would usually would be a UK unc.

As for the grading of hammered coins, they can be very suspect at the very least.

There has also been a British coin company set up, which reputes to grade by the British standards. They are called CGS:

http://www.cgs-uk.biz/cgs-uk/aboutUs

they use a 100 point grading scale compared with the US (Sheldon) 70 point scale.

At the end of the day you should always buy the coin and not the grade given by the TGP's.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 412]

Hussolo fairly accurately summed it up in a brief and concise manner.......

Always try to to stay with the major TPG's, but bear in mind that they are not always conversant with all the varieties and often enough mis-attribute them....

In any event, always buy the coin and not the plastic....

Edited June 29, 2008 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Chingford 166]

Thankyou both, Hussulos link to the PCGS article is particularly interesting, the NNC looks fairly similar to others I have seen, very amateur and cheap looking labels.

My searches, usually by date, bring up these encapsulated coins occassionally, and I have seen MS65 graded coins I couldn't pass as VF with the obvious wear, digs, scratches etc..

[Dg43 0]

You are correct about the US grading standards. It is generally excepted that US grading is not as strict as UK grading.

In most cases MS 60-63 which is unc. in US equated to EF to EF+ by UK standards, AU US equates to VF to VF+ UK (and in some cases not even). MS 64 and up, would usually would be a UK unc.

I think you are a little unkind to the U.S. system Hus, here is a link to Chris' comparison chart on the predecimal site.

http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm

However, as far as I can tell, it is only PCGS and NGC that can be relied upon (to some extent) to accurately grade British coins. CGS in the UK seem to be quite harsh in their grading - a good thing if it wasn't for the horror of .............. the slabbing!

[Red Riley 2]

So someone has cottoned on to the idea of forging the slab. Should be easy pickings since slabbed coins are aimed at investors who don't care tuppence about what's inside.

I know I shouldn't, but it does make me smile...

[Geordie582 18]

If enough investors have their fingers burned with the fakes, do you think there is a possibility of a backlash against slabs - or am I just wishing?

Edited June 30, 2008 by Geordie582

[Hussulo 6]

You are correct about the US grading standards. It is generally excepted that US grading is not as strict as UK grading.

In most cases MS 60-63 which is unc. in US equated to EF to EF+ by UK standards, AU US equates to VF to VF+ UK (and in some cases not even). MS 64 and up, would usually would be a UK unc.

I think you are a little unkind to the U.S. system Hus, here is a link to Chris' comparison chart on the predecimal site.

<a href="http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm" target="_blank">http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm</a>

However, as far as I can tell, it is only PCGS and NGC that can be relied upon (to some extent) to accurately grade British coins. CGS in the UK seem to be quite harsh in their grading - a good thing if it wasn't for the horror of .............. the slabbing!

Perhaps, don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at slabbed coins, I've got many, but I'm only airing a word of caution to people whom don't know how to/ or aren't confident in their grading. That being, at this present time and in most cases, it is generally accepted that the US system isn't as strict at grading British coins as the UK grading standards.

I should add, I don't know of any official US to UK grading comparison list. Chris's could very well be more accurate than mine. My before mentioned comparison is my own summary and what I usually go off when buying, unless I can see a very clear picture of the coin or I have it in hand. You may say I am playing it safe, perhaps I am, but I've also seen some coins which are IMO way off.

I had a 1717 1/2d which was graded AU50 by a major grading company, to me the coin would grade UK VF. I won it for VF price on the bay, so that was fine. I recently sold it (two years after purchase) at auction on ebay and it only made UK VF price. So obviously I wasn't the only one that thought it looked VF.

P.S. did you know there is a company that now grades the graders:

<a href="http://www.usrarecoininvestments.com/coin_articles/cac_coin_grading.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usrarecoininvestments.com/coin_...oin_grading.htm</a>

"Now there's an easy way to identify premium quality coins within any particular grade"

I found this quite amusing. So you can now send your graded coin to be graded again to make sure the graders did it right the first time! They stick their sticker on the slab for you.

Surely if there is a market for such a service, either some people don't trust some of the grades given, or the grading standards aren't the same across the board?

I'm not saying don't buy slabbed coins, or that you shouldn't trust grading companies. What I am saying is be cautious, and buy coins you personally like the look of, and not just the number on the slab. Try to stick to reputable grading companies and dealers. Try and read up and do some research about the coins you are buying, mistakes are easily made. Learn to use your own judgement as well as others.

I'm not pro slabbing or anti slabbing, I'm only being realistic. I can see the arguments both for and against slabbing. I believe if slabbing is done correctly it can be an affective asset for many collectors, but not one that will be used by all collectors.

When slabbing is mentioned, it always draws a few gasps from some collectors, but you have to remember grading can be subjective and it can even differ from dealer to dealer. I'm sure we have all come across some dealers who grade stricter than others. In the ideal world everyone would have the same grading standards, but this isn't going to happen. I'm sure grading standards and slabbing will be a hot topic for years to come.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Hussulo