NEW UNLISTED VARIETY of 1873 HALF-PENNY

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

This is the 1873 Obverse 8 with Reverse C#

[Martinminerva 347]

I am afraid I am showing my ignorance here, but how does your Reverse C# differ from Freeman's Reverse G? Can you give me any specific pointers for me to be able to use your two detailed scans to differentiate them from what I believe I have in my collection which is the common Reverse G?

Thanks.

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

[Martinminerva 347]

I have since tracked down and obtained the Dracott articles and can now spot reverse C# with ease! (narrower lighthouse, P and E of PENNY in particular closer to the linear circle etc.) I have also recently obtained a specimen of the pairing 7+C#, which makes two of them known now, and it is in pretty decent condition - pictures attached. I also know of 4 more examples of the 8+C# pairing, which brings their total to at least 9. Do both pairings now warrant some sort of official recording somewhere? I wonder how many more specimens of either pairing are out and about, but as yet unidentfied?

I am afraid I am showing my ignorance here, but how does your Reverse C# differ from Freeman's Reverse G? Can you give me any specific pointers for me to be able to use your two detailed scans to differentiate them from what I believe I have in my collection which is the common Reverse G?

Thanks.

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

[davidrj 194]

I have since tracked down and obtained the Dracott articles

?? Dracott, not heard of this reference before

David

[azda 981]

I have since tracked down and obtained the Dracott articles and can now spot reverse C# with ease! (narrower lighthouse, P and E of PENNY in particular closer to the linear circle etc.) I have also recently obtained a specimen of the pairing 7+C#, which makes two of them known now, and it is in pretty decent condition - pictures attached. I also know of 4 more examples of the 8+C# pairing, which brings their total to at least 9. Do both pairings now warrant some sort of official recording somewhere? I wonder how many more specimens of either pairing are out and about, but as yet unidentfied?

I am afraid I am showing my ignorance here, but how does your Reverse C# differ from Freeman's Reverse G? Can you give me any specific pointers for me to be able to use your two detailed scans to differentiate them from what I believe I have in my collection which is the common Reverse G?

Thanks.

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

Getting quite common now lol.....Your example has some old cleaning MartinP, or do we call you Mr Platt?

[Martinminerva 347]

I have since tracked down and obtained the Dracott articles

?? Dracott, not heard of this reference before

David

Coin News, April, May and July 2004. Quite interesting and detailed study!

Cheers.

[Martinminerva 347]

I have since tracked down and obtained the Dracott articles and can now spot reverse C# with ease! (narrower lighthouse, P and E of PENNY in particular closer to the linear circle etc.) I have also recently obtained a specimen of the pairing 7+C#, which makes two of them known now, and it is in pretty decent condition - pictures attached. I also know of 4 more examples of the 8+C# pairing, which brings their total to at least 9. Do both pairings now warrant some sort of official recording somewhere? I wonder how many more specimens of either pairing are out and about, but as yet unidentfied?

I am afraid I am showing my ignorance here, but how does your Reverse C# differ from Freeman's Reverse G? Can you give me any specific pointers for me to be able to use your two detailed scans to differentiate them from what I believe I have in my collection which is the common Reverse G?

Thanks.

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

Getting quite common now lol.....Your example has some old cleaning MartinP, or do we call you Mr Platt?

Not convinced it does, actually - in the hand it seems more like just genuine circulation wear and thus rubbing to the high spots.

I don't understand the Platt reference at all, I'm afraid... Who's that?? Ain't me!

[Martinminerva 347]

I have just listed on eBay a pretty grotty but identifiable example of this 1873 8+C# die pairing halfpenny if anyone wants to fill a gap...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284372897001

Wonder exactly how many are now known? Still think it's pretty rare though!

cheers!

 

[Mr T 189]

Yep looks like it - the parallel lighthouse sides are there.

Couldn't quite make out the obverse but it's still a rare reverse.

[Martinminerva 347]

On 1 September 2011 at 9:09 PM, Martinminerva said:

 

 

The one I have listed on eBay is definitely obverse 8. Compare it with my (much better!) obverse 7 one above... Especially the position of the top leaves in relation to the colon after G of D:G: and the bottom of the truncation - obverse 7 above has truncation right up to linear circle, whereas obverse 8 on the eBay specimen has a distinct gap between bust and linear circle.

[Mr T 189]

On 12/8/2008 at 1:18 PM, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

I recently acquired what is possibly the 5th known specimen of a Half-Penny variety, unlisted in Freeman but acknowledged by Dracott in his Half-Penny study.... An 1873 obverse 8 paired with reverse C#.

What I later discovered amongst some coins that I already had, but passed over because it was not an obverse 8, was another 1873 Half-Penny with reverse C#, but paired with Obverse 7... UNKNOWN & UNLISTED till now.....

See attached scans......

@Bronze & Copper Collector do you have those images handy? I hadn't heard of this until now.

And just confirming that the C# can be spotted by a flat shield rim while the other reverses used in 1873 all have recessed shield rims?

[secret santa 2,374]

I can't get at those scans......

[Peckris 2 2,163]

3 minutes ago, secret santa said:

I can't get at those scans......

Me neither - they're just lines of text ending .jpg

[Martinminerva 347]

Probably because the original post is 13 years old now!!

I remember seeing on the forum a while ago that Bernie had found a lustrous A.Unc specimen of the 8+C# and posted pictures of that, but in another thread that I haven't been able to track down yet, but I'll keep looking...

[Martinminerva 347]

Found it!

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/3664-coin-aquisition-of-the-week/?page=502&tab=comments#comment-141727

 

And here's a screenshot of it :

 

 

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

For some reason I am unable to upload the images....

I'll keep trying...

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Mr T 189]

I found that post: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/3664-coin-aquisition-of-the-week/?page=502&tab=comments#comment-141727

Looking at it, the rim is slightly recessed - is that not a reliable indicator for reverse C#?

 

[Martinminerva 347]

3 hours ago, Mr T said:

 

Looking at it, the rim is slightly recessed - is that not a reliable indicator for reverse C#?

 

The shield rim IS indeed slightly recessed, like the original 1860 rev C that it appears to be based on. As specimens wear of course, that becomes a flatter part of the coin, so not a reliable definer. Much better is the lighthouse itself, plus the fact that the PE of PENNY are much closer to the linear circle than on the normal 1873 reverse.

 

[secret santa 2,374]

I'm posting the following images for Gary:

Obv 7 Rev C#

 

[secret santa 2,374]

and Obv *8 Rev C#

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

Thank you Richard......

 

[Martinminerva 347]

On 16 July 2021 at 12:30 PM, Martinminerva said:

I have just listed on eBay a pretty grotty but identifiable example of this 1873 8+C# die pairing halfpenny if anyone wants to fill a gap...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284372897001

Wonder exactly how many are now known? Still think it's pretty rare though!

cheers!

 

Obviously not a lot of halfpenny collectors out there... !

I know it's crappy, but how many of this type do exist??

[Mr T 189]

How long ago was the C# reverse discovered? It was mentioned in 2004 but possibly discovered before then?

[Martinminerva 347]

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

How long ago was the C# reverse discovered? It was mentioned in 2004 but possibly discovered before then?

Iain Dracott says in his 2004 Coin News articles that he discovered it, but doesn't mention when. No references I can find that pre-date that, but only Iain would know for sure. Don't know if he is a member here, or if another member is in contact with him?