Artificial darkening of post-war pennies

[declanwmagee 122]

It's well-known that the Mint artificially darkened post-war bronze Pennies, but I found out why recently and thought I'd share it.

It was fashionable at the time to put shiny new pennies in kid's Christmas stockings, and the Mint considered this a frivolous use of valuable national resources at a time of austerity, so darkened them with thiosulphate in order to discourage the practice.

How about that?

I don't know about anyone else but I find it fascinating to find out the reasons behind these things, rather than just knowing that they happened, and the more I look at it, the more I realise how little we know. For instance - why is there is a calm sea 1957 halfpenny? Making changes to dies can't be cheap, so there must have been sound commercial thought behind all of these facts.

ain't coin collecting great?

Declan

[Gary D 76]

It's well-known that the Mint artificially darkened post-war bronze Pennies, but I found out why recently and thought I'd share it.

It was fashionable at the time to put shiny new pennies in kid's Christmas stockings, and the Mint considered this a frivolous use of valuable national resources at a time of austerity, so darkened them with thiosulphate in order to discourage the practice.

How about that?

I don't know about anyone else but I find it fascinating to find out the reasons behind these things, rather than just knowing that they happened, and the more I look at it, the more I realise how little we know. For instance - why is there is a calm sea 1957 halfpenny? Making changes to dies can't be cheap, so there must have been sound commercial thought behind all of these facts.

ain't coin collecting great?

Declan

Now Freeman give a different explanation, and I quote "During the war, tin became extremely scarce because of the Japanese occupatin of Malaya, and the percentage of that metal in the bronze coinage was reduced from 3 to 0.5. Bronze of reduced tin content tones to a pinkish shade, and, in order to maintain the usual appearance of bronze coin, the pennies of 1944-46 were treated with 'hypo'"

Gary

[declanwmagee 122]

That sounds more interesting than what I found Gary!

This is from "A New History of the Royal Mint" by C.E.Challis:

"every effort was made to discourage excessive demand for coin, and it was during the War that the issue of silver threepences was first confined to those required overseas and then discontinued altogether. Bronze demand was also discouraged, and the Mint was fortunate that existing supplies were large enough that for much of the War it was not necessary to strike pennies to meet domestic needs. When the issue of pennies resumed in 1944 the Mint adopted an earlier practice of discolouring them so that demand would not be inflated for frivolous rather than practical reasons."

I wonder if there was an "Official" reason, with everything being planned and under control, and only later did the real reason, as outlined in Freeman, be admitted?

[scott 144]

yea would be right, but didnt they also change the metal %'s in the war years, at least the mint used the same established coin designs and coloured metals and didn't go to the horrible zinc, lower demand might also explain why we have the 50-52 pennies as rare pieces

[The Dark Numismatist 0]

I don't know anything about the artificial darkening of pennies after the war, but I do remember as a young boy in the early fifties an influx of 1948/49 pennies with full lustre suddenly appearing in general circulation, in fact they were very common indeed in my area (Bromley, Kent). I should have put some aside but I guess I was more interested in Black Jacks and Fruit Salads back then. Maybe over production of these pennies meant that it was unnecessary to circulate pennies dated 1950-2 and the 48/49s were held back until then, and the low 1950/51 mintages, being specifically produced for British colonies only, were all sent abroad.

[Chris Perkins 228]

That's interesting because 1948/49 pennies still turn up very often in BU condition.

(by the way, I was born in Sidcup and my dad lives in Penge....I know Bromley pretty well)

[Red Riley 2]

That's interesting because 1948/49 pennies still turn up very often in BU condition.

(by the way, I was born in Sidcup and my dad lives in Penge....I know Bromley pretty well)

Not wanting to impugne your birthplaxe at all Chris, but Sidcup sounds like a type of brasierre and Penge a rather unpleasant condition!

But then West Londoners always did have a superiority complex...

[Chris Perkins 228]

Penge is a bit of a grim name I admit. And there is a history of 'Penge' jokes and wordplays from over the years. I don't much like the place myself, I always find it hard to get to. Dad says he's right on the borders of Anerley, Beckenham and Penge so often uses those alternate names in polite conversation!

Sidcup on the other hand is practically the centre of the universe! Even Rab C Nesbit was aparently once lost and 'trying to get to Shhidcup'. It's the birthplace of one of Led Zepellin and Sidcup station was where the Rolling Stones were formed in an agreement between Jagger and Richards. It's the home of a former PM (Heath) and was immortalised by P G Wodehouse in the Jeeves series... the Oswald Mosley dictator character was the 7th Earl of Sidcup (an entirely made up name because the actual manor was that of Lord Bexley a former Chancellor of the Exchequer). No doubt I could go one singing the praised of Sidcup! While I think of it, Eltham Palace which is about 5 miles away from Sidcup, was the favourite palace of Henry VIII and is now run by English Heritage.

[The Dark Numismatist 0]

Sidcup is ok, my son and his family lived there for several years and have just moved a mile down the road to Bexley. Sidcup has the distinction of having the best Indian restaurant in the south east: Rucchi's close to Albany Park station!

There's not much to say about Penge, though, except that it was once quite posh, getting posher as you approached Beckenham. Nowadays most of those big Victorian houses have been demolished and a block of flats built on the site of each one. That's progress...

[freewheels 2]

Sidcup is ok, my son and his family lived there for several years and have just moved a mile down the road to Bexley. Sidcup has the distinction of having the best Indian restaurant in the south east: Rucchi's close to Albany Park station!

There's not much to say about Penge, though, except that it was once quite posh, getting posher as you approached Beckenham. Nowadays most of those big Victorian houses have been demolished and a block of flats built on the site of each one. That's progress...

This is too funny!

I live in a San Francisco suburb now but I grew up in Orpington and went to Bromley Grammar School in the late 60's. (Bromley Grammar on Hayes Lane now Ravensbourne School). I had a bad date in Sidcup I never knew what it was famous for!

I used to go to Bexley Coin Club; Bexley birthplace of Mick Jagger.

FYI David Bowie was born in Beckenham.

Anyone know what Orpington is famous for other than the Buff Orpington breed of hen?

Small world,

Michael.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Mick Jagger was from Dartford and I think he was born Dartford way. I saw him once with Jerry Hall, daughter Jade and his late father when they were opening a new wing at Dartford Grammar.

I'm a member of the Bexley Coin Club, at least I was last time I looked. Do you know Richard Varnham? He's been a member ages, used to have the little shop in Blackheath with his dad.

I had a stint at Orpington College of Further education in the 90s! There's a 'coin' shop in the High Street. It was called 'The Collector' then but is now 'Orpington Coins and Medals' I believe. I bought my 3rd car (A Triumph Dolomite) from a man in Orpington and it not being all that far from Sidcup, I know it well.

[The Dark Numismatist 0]

Re David Bowie:

I believe he was actually born in Brixton, but moved to Bromley (Plaistow Grove, next to Sundridge Park station) and attended Bromley Technical High School for Boys 1958-63, (now Ravenswood School). He was in my class at that school, and in fact we were born only 4 hours apart, although on different days, me at 11.55pm on 7th Jan, and he about 3.00am on the 8th. I think when he married his first wife he moved to Beckenham.

When I took the 11-plus exam in 1958 I was a borderline candidate for Bromley Grammar School, but I dipped the interview, which was a shame because a few of my friends from Princes Plain went there, but I was happy to go to Bromley Tech because it was a brand new school then and only 5-10 mins ride from home on the push bike.

I know Orpington quite well and have been in 'The Collector' a few times - bought a few half crowns there. I don't think Orpington is famous for anything except them ol' chickens...

[Chris Perkins 228]

You were at school with David Bowie! That's not something many people can say. I went out with a girl once whose dad went to school with Ian Paice, the drummer from Deep Purple, but that's about as good as it gets!

I remember reading something about the Buff Orpington Chickens once....that they don't actually come from Orpington.

And isn't there also a Dartford bird, a Dartford Marsh Warbler or something like that. I'd have to google.

[Red Riley 2]

You were at school with David Bowie! That's not something many people can say. I went out with a girl once whose dad went to school with Ian Paice, the drummer from Deep Purple, but that's about as good as it gets!

I remember reading something about the Buff Orpington Chickens once....that they don't actually come from Orpington.

And isn't there also a Dartford bird, a Dartford Marsh Warbler or something like that. I'd have to google.

It's a dartford warbler, although God knows why, since you don't see them there. The New Forest is about as close as they get.

Re ex-schoolmates. Went to the same school as Glen Matlock of Sex Pistols (he was a year below me).

[scottishmoney 29]

Curiously the only time I have heard of the BRM darkening coins was the farthings in the early part of the 20th century to prevent them from being confused with the Sovereign coins. They were close in dimension, and in the right circumstance whence the farthing was brand new it could have been confused for a coin worth 960 times as much. I believe they were darkened prior to leaving the mint, up until the mid 1920's by which time Sovereigns had all but disappeared from circulation.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Curiously the only time I have heard of the BRM darkening coins was the farthings in the early part of the 20th century to prevent them from being confused with the Sovereign coins. They were close in dimension, and in the right circumstance whence the farthing was brand new it could have been confused for a coin worth 960 times as much. I believe they were darkened prior to leaving the mint, up until the mid 1920's by which time Sovereigns had all but disappeared from circulation.

They were indeed darkened, but it was to avoid confusion with the half sovereign which is pretty much the same size, not the sovereign. And it was only up to 1918. UNC darkened farthings of that period look great.