Bronze Coins in Slabs

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Morning,

My first post.

Lately, I've been sending the odd penny to be slabbed - maybe not everybodys cup of tea but I like them (not too sure about some of the subsidiary goings on though) and I've also been reading some stuff on the web, mostly US sites, which has just raised a slight doubt about the wisdom of slabbing bronze.

Depending on who you believe, some say that there is evidence that encapsulation accelerates the ageing process. Not talking about a badly slabbed coin here, but if it is done well, anybody have any opinions ?

I note that NGC in the US only vouches for it's slabbed bronze for 10 years. I've asked the UK company that I use for an opinion, but heard nothing as yet, don't know if I'm going to....

[Hussulo 6]

I don't believe slabbing coins will accelerate the ageing process or toning but a common misconception is that slabs are 100% airtight. It all depends mainly on what kind of environment you store your coins in. I have have full set of slabbed 1/3 farthings which I store in a PCGS prestige box and I've also put several small silica gel pouches in to draw out any moisture that may creap in. Best also to keep them in a dark place where there isn't great changes in temperature. If you leave a coin in direct sunlight it will be affected.

I've heard other collectors that place shiny new copper coins in with there collection. They say the new coins attract any bad things in the atmosphere first which should protect your more valuable coins. I believe this is the principal of how the intercept shield covers for slabs and intercept shield slabs work.

As you know copper and bronze coins command a premium when in red, unfortunately do to the composition of the metals they are most likely to tone and get damaged from the likes of verdigris.

I've also heard that Stewart Blay famous US cent collector who's cent collection is made up exclusively of high end red pieces wraps each of his slabs in tin/ aluminium foil and tapes the edges up to make them further airtight.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Well, that's reassuring, thank you.

For me, slabbing has pro's and con's probably the biggest pro is accessibility, I can look at the coin quickly and easily whenever I want without fear of dropping it, or sneezing on it, etc, etc.

Just want to be sure before I commit the expensive stuff that I'm not making a known mistake.

Enjoyed the story of the cent collector, guess we all feel a bit like that sometimes, but my personal opinion is that coins are beautiful and beauty is there to be looked at. If one has got to a position where the coins are wrapped up out of sight, for me that's just become financial. Same as putting coins in a bank vault on the other side of town - they were designed to be seen, often.

Thanks again

[Hussulo 6]

Well, that's reassuring, thank you.

For me, slabbing has pro's and con's probably the biggest pro is accessibility, I can look at the coin quickly and easily whenever I want without fear of dropping it, or sneezing on it, etc, etc.

Just want to be sure before I commit the expensive stuff that I'm not making a known mistake.

Enjoyed the story of the cent collector, guess we all feel a bit like that sometimes, but my personal opinion is that coins are beautiful and beauty is there to be looked at. If one has got to a position where the coins are wrapped up out of sight, for me that's just become financial. Same as putting coins in a bank vault on the other side of town - they were designed to be seen, often.

Thanks again

You're welcome. About the sneezing part. Coins have known to change appearance after being slabbed.

If you miss handle a coin it could be a couple of years before a fingerprint shows up. Likewise if someone sneezes on a coin it may show spots after it has been slabbed.

That's why some buyers in the US prefer to buy a red coin in an earlier generation (ie PCGS green label) slab. The theory is if it's going to turn it probably would have by now.

Bronze and copper although does tone nicely and is nice in red is far too volatile for me. That is one of the reasons I prefer gold coins for my main collection.

As for the cent collector. You have a point but as soon as you start to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on one coin you are entering the realm of investment whether you like it or not. Some of the prices you see quoted for high end red US coins is just scary. I mean imagine you owned one and you took a look at it one day to notice it now has some brown toning on it. The value of the coin could be halved over night! The coin has went from being a red to a red brown!

I think the cent collector is offering anybody $150,000 for a 1909-S VDB cent in PCGS MS67 (guide price is $110,000)

If I was spending that on coins I would wrap them in tin foil too.

Keeping coins in the bank. Again I to believe coins should be admired but I keep my gold coins in the bank now. Once they passed a certain value I didn't feel safe about keeping them in my house. I also though that if there was a fire (heaven forbid) at my house the insurance might pay out but there are some coins I couldn't replace. So I feel safer with them at the bank where I can still go down to look at them when I remove or ad any.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Hussulo

[DaveG38 405]

Hi Hussalo,

I am seriously considering putting many of my coins in the bank, and I wondered what you had to do for security and storage. My bank is perfectly willing to take them, provided they are in a secured box to which I obviously have the key or combination. The difficulty I have is finding a suitable container. You wouldn't believe the problems I am finding in getting a metal container made. Any advice? What sort of box did you use? Who from ? etc. etc.

[Colin G. 147]

Hi,

I have been trying out some slabs that you encase yourself, not yet found a UK supplier, and have to buy them from a guy in Canada, but my coins have been in them for 12 months without any ill effects yet. They are great because you offer some protection to the coin, but I like to re-examine my coins and compare them repeatedly, so when I need to photograph them etc I can safely take them out and put them back in when ready.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120426034972

Added bonus is that I can also label them myself with my collection ref numbers etc.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I guess a badly handled bronze coin will deteriorate anywhere, in a slab or a paper envelope whatever.

Trick is to ensure that a 100 year old sparkler continues to stay in shape for the 'hopefully' 30 years or so that it will be my responsibility and I think encapsulation is the best all round compromise between preservation and accessibility.

Colin, haven't seen those DIY slabs before, seem like a good idea.

[scottishmoney 29]

Hi Hussalo,

I am seriously considering putting many of my coins in the bank, and I wondered what you had to do for security and storage. My bank is perfectly willing to take them, provided they are in a secured box to which I obviously have the key or combination. The difficulty I have is finding a suitable container. You wouldn't believe the problems I am finding in getting a metal container made. Any advice? What sort of box did you use? Who from ? etc. etc.

Sadly enough some of the most airtite containers around are old US Army ammunition boxes. Problem is, when you buy them, they had ammunition in them at one time, the compounds used for the gunpowder are very highly corrosive. I have some that I have cleaned out, put desiccant in, and use for storing small batteries in for long periods of time before using them. The only coins I store in them are already dark cents.

[Hussulo 6]

Hi,

I have been trying out some slabs that you encase yourself, not yet found a UK supplier, and have to buy them from a guy in Canada, but my coins have been in them for 12 months without any ill effects yet. They are great because you offer some protection to the coin, but I like to re-examine my coins and compare them repeatedly, so when I need to photograph them etc I can safely take them out and put them back in when ready.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120426034972

Added bonus is that I can also label them myself with my collection ref numbers etc.

Colin that's exactly the type of thing I use for my loose gold coins.

[Hussulo 6]

Hi Hussalo,

I am seriously considering putting many of my coins in the bank, and I wondered what you had to do for security and storage. My bank is perfectly willing to take them, provided they are in a secured box to which I obviously have the key or combination. The difficulty I have is finding a suitable container. You wouldn't believe the problems I am finding in getting a metal container made. Any advice? What sort of box did you use? Who from ? etc. etc.

I use a similar case to this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALUMINIUM-METAL-LOCK...93%3A1|294%3A50

It's insides are empty unlike the one shown but you could probably remove the insides of the one shown.

It is wide enough to hold several boxes of slabs and it has two lockable catches on the front.

I have also etched my name on the handle but the bank also put a sticker on it with my details before putting it in the safe.

[Colin G. 147]

Colin that's exactly the type of thing I use for my loose gold coins.

Hus,

Where do you get yours from?

[Hussulo 6]

Colin that's exactly the type of thing I use for my loose gold coins.

Hus,

Where do you get yours from?

I think it was a US seller but they look just the same. I haven't needed to buy any since I first bought them over a year ago.

I purchased 4 boxes to save on shipping.

[scottishmoney 29]

I have to admit slabs are something that do nothing for me, I am not impressed by what they say or do. If I keep a coin any bit of a while I liberate it from the plastic tomb. Slabs are something that brings out the militancy in many collectors, frankly I don't care for them. I do not believe they do anymore for circulated coins especially than good care away from toxins etc.

There is something to be said for holding, carefully with dry hands of course, a 200+ piece of bronze and appreciating the heft of the piece. Slabs take that away.

Flame away you tombers.

[Hussulo 6]

I'm not starting a war. Too many non-tombers on this forum.

To be honest I'm not really into the opinions (grades) of the companies that slab coins

but I do like using slabs for storage. The ones Colin pictured are easy to crack open and

re-use. So you can still open them to handle coins if you want and when your finished you

just pop it back in again.

[Hussulo 6]

Colin these also look nice as you get different coloured background options:

http://www.valleycoin.com/index.php?cPath=9_406_664

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

As always, each to their own - that's what makes the world interesting.

The 'newish' Uk based TPG seems to be doing well though, mid 7,000's is the highest number I have seen, probably a drop in the ocean compared to PCGS and NGC in the States, but not bad in 3 years or so ?

I'm sensing a lot of upward pressure on prices attached to it as well - this could be the fact that in theory they are more suited to trade online. Hope we don't get to a situation in the UK where the number on the slab replaces the coin itself as the commodity as I've heard is the case in some circles across the pond.

All in all though, I come out on the side of imprisonment.

Into the slab you must go.......

[Hussulo 6]

As always, each to their own - that's what makes the world interesting.

Hope we don't get to a situation in the UK where the number on the slab replaces the coin itself as the commodity as I've heard is the case in some circles across the pond.

Never a better word said.

or as the old saying goes

buy the coin and not the slab.

[1949threepence 3,367]

I have to admit slabs are something that do nothing for me, I am not impressed by what they say or do. If I keep a coin any bit of a while I liberate it from the plastic tomb. Slabs are something that brings out the militancy in many collectors, frankly I don't care for them. I do not believe they do anymore for circulated coins especially than good care away from toxins etc.

There is something to be said for holding, carefully with dry hands of course, a 200+ piece of bronze and appreciating the heft of the piece. Slabs take that away.

Flame away you tombers.

I agree with you. I'm not a fan of slabbed coins, either. In fact most of my collection (and I don't do really old coins) are in Whitman folders. I collect for the pleasure of collection, not the profit, or potential profit. I like to hold an uncirculated coin from the turn of the 20th century, and wonder exactly where it was hiding all those years, whilst two world wars and the general upheaval of the last century was going on.

[scottishmoney 29]

I agree with you. I'm not a fan of slabbed coins, either. In fact most of my collection (and I don't do really old coins) are in Whitman folders. I collect for the pleasure of collection, not the profit, or potential profit. I like to hold an uncirculated coin from the turn of the 20th century, and wonder exactly where it was hiding all those years, whilst two world wars and the general upheaval of the last century was going on.

I don't think they make a slab for a piece of grape shot like this:

Lots of these seemingly ended their lives by being beaten to hell or used as disks to throw at each other or something. Despite the nearly 3 oz size, they were used in circulation for a bit, but then must have been used as weapons or something because most of the ones I have seen are in pretty bad shape. Incredibly they made trial strikes for a bronze sixpence, it was a veritable monster.

[VickySilver 830]

OK, I am a bit on the fence as perhaps some others are. Circulated coins probably generally do not belong in slabs, although there is some credence to "genuineness" in that there is a guaruntee by the company. This might come into play with a coin like the 1905 halfcrown.

On the other hand, I have seen mint red pennies held by dealers twixt thumb and index by the OBVERSE AND REVERSE, and not by the edge. Also numerous drops, and the very bad staples ( I have an 1856 penny that is mostly red and well struck, superior in every way except for a hairline scratch across Victoria's visage - uggh!).

I have had coins slabbed where extreme rarity is involved as I do feel it provides a measure of protection, and as was stated earlier in the thread we are hopefully but temporary custodians of these coins and are responsible for their upkeep.

[Gary D 76]

I'm a bit leary about the accuracy of slabs. A few years back I snapped up a lovely red 1912H penny for a few dollars because it was wrongly accredited. I also recently returned a proof crown that was again incorrectly accredited. USA slabbing companies are rubbish at non US coins.

[Guest gloryforixseal]

I have been trying to get hold of the follwing pages from "COINS" by Link house Pub....which contain information on Bronze coin varieties... I would happily pay for copies of these pages if anyone has them

1970 Vol 7 No 1 Pages 32-33

1971 Vol 8 No 1 Pages 18-20

1971 Vol 8 No 2 Pages 19-20

1971 Vol 8 no 6 pages 15-16

1972 Vol 9 No 6 pages 12-16

I am sure they will give me many hours of pleasure

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

USA slabbing companies are rubbish at non US coins.

I also have some reservations about grading as well as accreditation - seen some very ambitious grades which have put me off buying any US slabbed GB coin unless I can examine it first.

But, that said, I've also seen some lovely Lincoln Pennies etc, perhaps it is only right that each country specialises in it's own coinage? There is an Australian slabbing company now I believe, and we have CGS-UK

What is interesting is that it seems that CGS-UK in order to establish credibility, has adopted an extremely strict regime perhaps in a deliberate attempt to distance itself from some of the US companies shortcomings. Not in itself a bad thing, it's consistency that collectors are looking for and as has been previously said, I'm not over fussed if it's 80, 82, 85 or 88

I hope I didn't just lie there....

[VickySilver 830]

Perhaps this is a rehash of topics broached previously, but Gary might it be a bit unfair to have a sample size of one or two coins and then condemn the whole lot of US grading firms? I definately do not think they are the endall or that they are infallible but generally NGC or PCGS have been relatively fair in grading; that having been said many series are fraught with grading difficulties with Wreath Crowns being amongst them.

Even to this day we have lively discussions about whether some of these crowns are proof or just prooflike as production runs were rather short and actual proofs being somewhat less than stellar cameo contrast beauties. Another series that presents problems are the Victoria 3d proof versus currency coins. Many are borderline cases with legitimate differences of opinion and I have seen many UK dealers make mistakes with both these and the wreaths.

Not to pick on CGS but I have seen in their featured display case an 1875 (Heaton) farthing labelled as its London cousin of the same date, and I have seen (indeed own) a 1935 Specimen crown in "85" with less detail and luster & strike than an NGC 65 of the same date and type.

Perhaps a bit of openmindedness may go a ways when it comes to these slabs and companies?

[Gary D 76]

My criticism was not with the accurance of their grading just that the coins in the slabs where not what was written on the label. I made a mistake in my earlier post, it wasn't a 1912 penny but a 1902 which was graded as an MS64-Red for $50. In the slab was a low tide that books at about $300. I'm peachy about it but I bet the seller would not be impressed if they had known. The second went the other way. I took a chance on a 1935 deep cameo crown. To be a true deep cameo it would have to be a proof, not the raised edge pattern proof but a incuse proof, value, a great deal. In the slab was a raised edge proof which I promptly returned for a refund.

Gary