Three quid down the Swanee...

[Peckris 579]

You might be interested in this picture :

On the top, the 1903 penny photo uploaded by the seller, which made me interested enough to bid for it (I had to increase the image size three-fold to get a decent picture, so it looks rather fuzzy and grainy). Below, my own scan of it when it arrived at Peckris Acres. As I'm sure you can very easily see, a quite possible "open 3" turns out to be nothing of the sort.

[scott 144]

there was a bulk buy with one in i think, cos that went way up to like £5-6 for some worn 1903's.. tbh pennies are flying up to stupid prices currently.

i would have done what you did.. prolly would have rejected it though

[davidrj 194]

I had to increase the image size three-fold to get a decent picture

BTDTGTTS! frustating trying to decide whether an "I" points to a space or a tooth on a blown up photo, or else nice coin but no picture of the side I'm really interested in

[Peckris 579]

there was a bulk buy with one in i think, cos that went way up to like £5-6 for some worn 1903's.. tbh pennies are flying up to stupid prices currently.

i would have done what you did.. prolly would have rejected it though

Unfortunately I couldn't reject this one as the seller was one of those "No Returns Accepted" guys (I normally don't buy off them, but in this case I thought I'd take a chance).

I had to increase the image size three-fold to get a decent picture

BTDTGTTS! frustating trying to decide whether an "I" points to a space or a tooth on a blown up photo, or else nice coin but no picture of the side I'm really interested in

BTDTGTTS ?? I know what you mean about those damn sellers who only display one side though - they irritate the hell out of me. But I did get a laugh from the guy who couldn't tell the difference between 1927 and 1928 obverses, and put up one of each penny with the wrong obverse - I thought I'd found a rare mule ! ... briefly

[Peckris 579]

tbh pennies are flying up to stupid prices currently.

Yes I just spent a fruitless hour or so on eBay chasing some upgrades to my bun penny collection. These were nice grades, but rather 'glossy' (I got the distinct impression they had been rubbed or even lightly polished). They went for silly money in the end - more than Spink, many of them. I could understand the VF 1869, but the others?

[davidrj 194]

BTDTGTTS ??

Apologies, old geek slang

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

[Peckris 579]

BTDTGTTS ??

Apologies, old geek slang

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

One useful trick of my Apple Mac is that I can selectively zoom the screen in on any part, so I've had some nice blurry screens full of particular coins! (A large blur beats a small blur hands down).

Edited September 25, 2009 by Peckris

[scott 144]

i saw a 1864 in fine going at £58, it was the serif 4 too...

but yea i see those 1 side sellers and get annoyed.. i use both sides to decide.. and its always the wrong side!!!

[1949threepence 3,367]

You might be interested in this picture :

On the top, the 1903 penny photo uploaded by the seller, which made me interested enough to bid for it (I had to increase the image size three-fold to get a decent picture, so it looks rather fuzzy and grainy). Below, my own scan of it when it arrived at Peckris Acres. As I'm sure you can very easily see, a quite possible "open 3" turns out to be nothing of the sort.

Just proves the importance of quality photos when buying coins over the internet. On e bay, for example, some are vastly superior to others.

Taking a chance on a coin with a poor pic, is a bit "Russian Roulette". I have known them to look better in the hand than in the pic. Those tend to go for a lower price.

At least you only wasted £3.00. Not going to break the bank.

[1949threepence 3,367]

i saw a 1864 in fine going at £58, it was the serif 4 too...

but yea i see those 1 side sellers and get annoyed.. i use both sides to decide.. and its always the wrong side!!!

I always ask the seller to upload a picture of the missing side before the auction ends. If they don't, I lose interest very quickly. I'd never take a chance on a coin like that.

[Gary D 76]

The pounds I've spent on coins and they turn out to be not what they look to be. It's a real problem with ebay as once they have finished compressing the photos I'm suprised you can even tell which side of the coin you are looking at. And yes the single sided coin is a pet hate of mine also, along with the guys who show the date side along with a stock photo of the reverve. I've lost count of the rare 1965 6d I've seen because of the wrong photo.

As to the original post you must remember the 1903 open 3 is an R7 and a very well known variety. To find one on ebay unattributed is like winning the lottery, twice in consecutive weeks. You have to go for it though as occassionally you come up with the goods.

I have a coin on the way from Australia which I paid £20 single bid. I'm hoping it's a 1902 low tide with wide 2, an example is currently up to £350 on Colin Cooke. I'm fully expecting it t be a very poor 1902 high tide when it arrives, I live in hope.

[scott 144]

nice 1902 but £20 O.O

wide 2? how rare are wide 2's i always thought there were date spacing differances in 1902's...

i got my F169 1909 penny through luck (bulk buy) by 1939 rhodesia 6D through luck (bulk buy) my 1858 small date farthing through luck (dealer didn't have a book with it listed)

so there are ways to get one cheaply, but you do need luck

[1949threepence 3,367]

The pounds I've spent on coins and they turn out to be not what they look to be. It's a real problem with ebay as once they have finished compressing the photos I'm suprised you can even tell which side of the coin you are looking at. And yes the single sided coin is a pet hate of mine also, along with the guys who show the date side along with a stock photo of the reverve. I've lost count of the rare 1965 6d I've seen because of the wrong photo.

As to the original post you must remember the 1903 open 3 is an R7 and a very well known variety. To find one on ebay unattributed is like winning the lottery, twice in consecutive weeks. You have to go for it though as occassionally you come up with the goods.

I have a coin on the way from Australia which I paid £20 single bid. I'm hoping it's a 1902 low tide with wide 2, an example is currently up to £350 on Colin Cooke. I'm fully expecting it t be a very poor 1902 high tide when it arrives, I live in hope.

Don't know whether the above is tongue in cheek or not, but I'm pretty certain it's not low tide

[DaveG38 405]

nice 1902 but £20 O.O

wide 2? how rare are wide 2's i always thought there were date spacing differances in 1902's...

i got my F169 1909 penny through luck (bulk buy) by 1939 rhodesia 6D through luck (bulk buy) my 1858 small date farthing through luck (dealer didn't have a book with it listed)

so there are ways to get one cheaply, but you do need luck

Scott,

There are 13 minor types of low tide penny and just two for the high tide type, all based on the size, shape and pointings of the 0, 9 and 2 in the date.

[scott 144]

doing fine so far.

even with the silly penny prices got a fine gade 1862 (99p with 1.65pp)

and a beaded boarder 1860 halfpenny for 99p(1.10pp)

also found some wheat in all that chaff... i wont reviel until i win it (if i do)

[Gary D 76]

[\quote] Don't know whether the above is tongue in cheek or not, but I'm pretty certain it's not low tide

[scott 144]

yes i won it

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

listed as 1875 BUT having taken the picture and zoomed in and also after comparing to other examples, i believe to have got my hands on an 1875h penny (had to check for the size of the H and the size of the raised wear looks to be that of an H)

[Peckris 579]

nice 1902 but £20 O.O

wide 2? how rare are wide 2's i always thought there were date spacing differances in 1902's...

i got my F169 1909 penny through luck (bulk buy) by 1939 rhodesia 6D through luck (bulk buy) my 1858 small date farthing through luck (dealer didn't have a book with it listed)

so there are ways to get one cheaply, but you do need luck

Scott,

There are 13 minor types of low tide penny and just two for the high tide type, all based on the size, shape and pointings of the 0, 9 and 2 in the date.

I have to say this is new to me. And having learned it, I really can't say I'm very much excited either. I believe many collectors have quite a low interest threshold for these very minor pointing varieties, as witness the almost total apathy towards :

4 different types of 1957 'calm sea' halfpenny

various 1937 reverses

1928 silver

1905 penny reverses

It's my own opinion that the more distinguishable a variation is, or the rarer it is, the more likely it is to become popular - which would explain the 1909 penny, the 1915 farthing, the 1920 penny (all hard to distinguish but rare).

I did actually communicate with the seller of the 1903 penny ("Returns Not Accepted") to ask if he would make an exception as the picture wasn't clear enough to "tell which of two types it was". He replied saying I was "confusing the 1903 with the 1902 - there's only one type of 1903". I didn't push it, in case he started looking through reference books and relisting the item...

[DaveG38 405]

nice 1902 but £20 O.O

wide 2? how rare are wide 2's i always thought there were date spacing differances in 1902's...

i got my F169 1909 penny through luck (bulk buy) by 1939 rhodesia 6D through luck (bulk buy) my 1858 small date farthing through luck (dealer didn't have a book with it listed)

so there are ways to get one cheaply, but you do need luck

Scott,

There are 13 minor types of low tide penny and just two for the high tide type, all based on the size, shape and pointings of the 0, 9 and 2 in the date.

I have to say this is new to me. And having learned it, I really can't say I'm very much excited either. I believe many collectors have quite a low interest threshold for these very minor pointing varieties, as witness the almost total apathy towards :

4 different types of 1957 'calm sea' halfpenny

various 1937 reverses

1928 silver

1905 penny reverses

It's my own opinion that the more distinguishable a variation is, or the rarer it is, the more likely it is to become popular - which would explain the 1909 penny, the 1915 farthing, the 1920 penny (all hard to distinguish but rare).

I did actually communicate with the seller of the 1903 penny ("Returns Not Accepted") to ask if he would make an exception as the picture wasn't clear enough to "tell which of two types it was". He replied saying I was "confusing the 1903 with the 1902 - there's only one type of 1903". I didn't push it, in case he started looking through reference books and relisting the item...

Peckris,

I may have written about them in my book on 20C bronze varieties, but I did so only in order to clarify what all the different features were as defined by the different authorities and publications. When you do this its very difficult to draw the line on what to include and what to leave out. In the end inclusion always wins if only because the moment you publish something, somebody will tell you that you've left something out. So far so good for my book! Nobody is shouting so far.

Beyond that I am pretty much overwhelmed by indifference, cos as you say, so what if there are 13 types all slightly different. At the end of the day its a low tide penny!

[scott 144]

13 types makes me wonder though, is it is as rare as we think

but i think pointings should count if its 1 or 2 types in a year? but 13?

As far as i'm concerned

low tide = F156 with MINOR pointing differances

normal is F157

1903 is F158 and open 3 is 158A (why A?)

1904 is F159

1905 is F160/1 (another pointing this is the E in penny pointing at a rim tooth or a gap

1906 is F162

1907 is F163

then we have 1908 F164-6 all pointings again but the rare one is 164A with the colon after britt pointing at a tooth

1909 F168 which is 1 in the date pointing to the right of the tooth

and F169 1 above tooth which is rare

1910 F170

so.. thats what i read from CCGB

whats F167?

and all of these are all pointings (except low tide which is the victorian reverse)

of course things get missed (see 1858 small date farthing and PECK, which is obviously a variety but was missed) but thats rare, and i would love to see the differance between all 13 of these because well.... thats a lot of differances in such a small area. it was fine in the victorians you could see date differances, but spotting the differance between 13 spacing differances in that small area?

i must really get that book...

[AardHawk 73]

4 different types of 1957 'calm sea' halfpenny

Errr, you mean 7 different types, surely!

Your comments are interesting, but confusing to me. When these coins were in circulation, every man and his boy collected one of each date, but once you got them, then what, hence the interest in varieties. The fun to me was finding them in my change. I would never have dreamt of going to a coin dealers. It was the hunt rather than ownership that was the fun part of coin collecting for most people. The trouble with coin collecting on ebay is that its taken the fun out of the hobby. No one has any interest in the coins in their pocket any more (2008 dateless 20p being the exception), which is a shame, as that's where the new generation of hobbyist will come from. It seems that most people who hunger after coins are entrepreneurs looking to make a profit, rather than true numismatists.

[DaveG38 405]

whats F167?

F167 is a rare bronzed proof - its R19 so I wouldn't bother looking on eBay for one!

[Red Riley 2]

4 different types of 1957 'calm sea' halfpenny

Errr, you mean 7 different types, surely!

Your comments are interesting, but confusing to me. When these coins were in circulation, every man and his boy collected one of each date, but once you got them, then what, hence the interest in varieties. The fun to me was finding them in my change. I would never have dreamt of going to a coin dealers. It was the hunt rather than ownership that was the fun part of coin collecting for most people. The trouble with coin collecting on ebay is that its taken the fun out of the hobby. No one has any interest in the coins in their pocket any more (2008 dateless 20p being the exception), which is a shame, as that's where the new generation of hobbyist will come from. It seems that most people who hunger after coins are entrepreneurs looking to make a profit, rather than true numismatists.

To be fair, few people have taken much interest in the coins in their change since 1971, but after an initial slump where prices remained static for many years, the hobby picked up again from the 1990s, so something is enticing young people to become collectors. You couldn't deny the enthusiasm of the regular contributors to this board, but few I would regard as anything more than collectors/numismatists who may do the odd bit of trading on the side. Entrepreneurs need a market to make a buck and one where one entrepreneur just sells to another soon ends in tears.

[scott 144]

there is some interest in current circulation, people are paying £2.50 for commonwealth games £2 coins already even seen bids on 1988 pounds.

what strikes me as odd with some of these 20p's... is the reverse, if i recall correctly when i started picking up 2008 20ps they had a slightly differant alignment on the twenty

the top 1 being the first type of TWENTY. i found the differance is noticable to the eye if you put them together, the 1st type the twenty was nearer the edge, now to me that should be the same reverse for the mules?

i will draw the line at finding an R19... i have found an R9 by accident on ebay lol not that i now much about these R ratings.

[Peckris 579]

13 types makes me wonder though, is it is as rare as we think

i must really get that book...

Actually scott, the 1902 Low Tide penny has never been rare (not like the halfpenny). It is scarce only, compared to the normal variety, but because it came out first, paradoxically it got put aside more at the time, so survives in fairly high grades more often than you might expect. The 1919H is another example of a coin that's common in low grades, but the 1919H does get rare in high grade, much rarer than the 1902LT. I suppose the LT is an example of a variety that just 'caught on' and became popular, but out of all proportion to its rarity.

Strangely no-one, but no-one, seems to collect the varieties of 1956 halfpenny. I have to say I have never even seen one of them, and would dearly love to own one. They just never 'caught on', which is a shame really.