Coins as an investment?

[Coppers 58]

I've always been leery of promoting coins as an investment particularly as the appeal seems primarily directed towards those who are least familiar with the hobby. While checking out upcoming auctions, I happened to run across the following.

Link

Any other takes/opinions on this?

[Rob 3,152]

I've always been leery of promoting coins as an investment particularly as the appeal seems primarily directed towards those who are least familiar with the hobby. While checking out upcoming auctions, I happened to run across the following.

Link

Any other takes/opinions on this?

They seem true to their blurb. They buy a £50 coin, slab it and call it a £100 coin. (see other thread where you can buy a 1967 2/6d for £25 or whatever). The investment in my opinion is theirs. They buy coins at regular prices and then double them because they have put a number on the individual coin. Nice money if you can get it, but a bit disingenuous for the inexperienced punter who is the person most likely to be drawn into this on investment grounds. His investment will only double if the market as a whole rises in line because collectors in general will not pay a vast premium for something they are able to grade for themselves and so price accordingly. They are trying to drive the market higher by claiming an elite product. As has been said many times before, do your homework and the third party's homework becomes irrelevant.

[Peckris 579]

I've always been leery of promoting coins as an investment particularly as the appeal seems primarily directed towards those who are least familiar with the hobby. While checking out upcoming auctions, I happened to run across the following.

Link

Any other takes/opinions on this?

They seem true to their blurb. They buy a £50 coin, slab it and call it a £100 coin. (see other thread where you can buy a 1967 2/6d for £25 or whatever). The investment in my opinion is theirs. They buy coins at regular prices and then double them because they have put a number on the individual coin. Nice money if you can get it, but a bit disingenuous for the inexperienced punter who is the person most likely to be drawn into this on investment grounds. His investment will only double if the market as a whole rises in line because collectors in general will not pay a vast premium for something they are able to grade for themselves and so price accordingly. They are trying to drive the market higher by claiming an elite product. As has been said many times before, do your homework and the third party's homework becomes irrelevant.

I agree. If it was other than London Coins, or it was an independent source, I would say "fine", but buying coins - however good quality - from people who make such a huge mark-up is hardly investment potential.

I am currently reading through some late 60s issues of Coin Monthly - they make depressing reading. Every other advert is headlined INVESTMENT. "Invest in the scarce 1956 farthing, great potential. We can offer the following BU gems : 1 for £2, 10 for £19, 50 for £96". I kid you not ....

Investments in anything are always risky, they can go up or down. The only true advice in my experience is, "buy what you love and what interests you, and buy the highest quality you can afford".

[Rob 3,152]

I am currently reading through some late 60s issues of Coin Monthly - they make depressing reading. Every other advert is headlined INVESTMENT. "Invest in the scarce 1956 farthing, great potential. We can offer the following BU gems : 1 for £2, 10 for £19, 50 for £96". I kid you not ....

I think I'll have 5 lots of 10@£19 please and not 50 for £96

[scott 144]

lol rip off much, i'll stick to ebay and my dealer usualy a bargain to be had somewhere, trhats my investment, if i pay below book price i cant lose

[Rob 3,152]

lol rip off much, i'll stick to ebay and my dealer usualy a bargain to be had somewhere, trhats my investment, if i pay below book price i cant lose

You can if the book is wrong

[Coppers 58]

lol rip off much, i'll stick to ebay and my dealer usualy a bargain to be had somewhere, trhats my investment, if i pay below book price i cant lose

You can if the book is wrong

Scott -- even if the book is spot on insofar as what a dealer may charge for a coin, if you should go back to that same dealer to sell, you might find yourself being offered 50 percent of book or less. Where you've probably done well is finding rarer varieties here and there which when sold were not identified as such. Irrespective as to whether the coins you may buy turn out to be a good investment or not, enjoy the hobby by learning about the coins you collect and by sharing your ideas and experiences with other collectors, many of whom frequent this forum.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Well, I think it's fairly clear that London Coins are trying to drive the market/prices along at a fairly rattling rate, and CGS are up in the mid 9,000's of coins slabbed and graded now, so I think it's fair to say they are having some success ? They also persuaded at least one person that a slender 3 is worth £19k.

Obviously, as collectors we don't want high prices thank you very much, but as investors, well then I guess we do.

It all depends whether we are collecting or investing.

Also, as with much else in life, it is the people who take the long term view i.e 20 years + that are often the winners in the final analysis.

There is much about collecting that one can't put a price on - the week long glow that comes with finding a copy of Freeman in mint condition in the back of a bookshop in Lewes for £2.50, the excitment as auction day approaches, the completely pointless enjoyment of gazing at a line of lustrous pennies with a glass of wine on the go, skipping downstairs to meet the postman who clearly has a jiffy bag in his hand...

It's not all about money

[scott 144]

true i guess, but i have had some of my nicer pieces from bulk buys i got on the cheap. i plan to hold onto these coins in the long term.

and i have some very nice specific coins that are worth a good chunk alone, that are more specialist and as such if i did sell i would sell them to people who knew about the area

(1858 small date farthing, 1939 rhodesia 6D etc)

wish i could afford lustrous pennies from before geogrge V, i'll stick to partial lustre farthings and enjoying my 1858 small date farthing.

[VickySilver 830]

Coins as investment? Good luck! Although they may end up bringing more money that they were purchased for in some instances, overall I would not begin to count on bringing in retirement money.

Funny thing I have noted about collecting is that some of the mediocre to lesser coins (in monetary value) have been some of my very favorite. No doubt when the day comes to resell they will not bring a lot. In fact, and understandably so, dealers will likely "cherrypick" the more expensive bits and dump or lot up the lesser coins. Some of the more expensive bits may or may not bring a profit - likely the lesser bits will lose out as investment.

As far as the certifying game and London coins or others who take ordinary coins, slab them, and then sell them for crazy numbers, even I who am a bit equivocal about slabbing, come down firmly against this not only because I do not see the added value but because it seems squarely a ripoff.

As a collector I rather resent the dealers and flippers who drive up prices and have no interest in the coins themselves...

[Peckris 579]

Well, I think it's fairly clear that London Coins are trying to drive the market/prices along at a fairly rattling rate

We've been here before, and not so long ago. Remember when the Coincraft Catalogue came out in the 90s with prices well in excess of the stagnating Seaby Standard Catalogue? (Not to mention their own trade paper.)

Then Spink took over the Standard Catalogue and suddenly they were competing with Coincraft who could push prices up higher.

But things seem to have returned to more normal in the last few years, at least until slabbing came along ... Hopefully true collectors will dictate the market and drive out those who invest first last and don't love coins.

[1949threepence 3,367]

I've always been leery of promoting coins as an investment particularly as the appeal seems primarily directed towards those who are least familiar with the hobby. While checking out upcoming auctions, I happened to run across the following.

Link

Any other takes/opinions on this?

I only collect coins as a hobby, and don't trade. So it falls a bit flat.

Once I have the best possible coin I can get for the date concerned, it's there for life, and I will never part with it. The rest go into my old fillers box.

Probably some snippets of good advice for those who are interested in investment. But I suspect as with most other things in life, the advice is soon forgotten, as people find their own way, and develop their own best practice, personal to them.

Well, I think it's fairly clear that London Coins are trying to drive the market/prices along at a fairly rattling rate, and CGS are up in the mid 9,000's of coins slabbed and graded now, so I think it's fair to say they are having some success ? They also persuaded at least one person that a slender 3 is worth £19k.

Obviously, as collectors we don't want high prices thank you very much, but as investors, well then I guess we do.

It all depends whether we are collecting or investing.

Also, as with much else in life, it is the people who take the long term view i.e 20 years + that are often the winners in the final analysis.

There is much about collecting that one can't put a price on - the week long glow that comes with finding a copy of Freeman in mint condition in the back of a bookshop in Lewes for £2.50, the excitment as auction day approaches, the completely pointless enjoyment of gazing at a line of lustrous pennies with a glass of wine on the go, skipping downstairs to meet the postman who clearly has a jiffy bag in his hand...

It's not all about money

Their coins are a ridiculously high price, and looking at some of them on the website today, I think many of them are slightly overgraded. Moreover, the standard of photography is dreadful in many cases. Quite painful to look at.

[scott 144]

yes they are stupidly priced,

looking at these decimal coins, UNC 80, 1995 5p for a tenner? i dont care about how UNC it is... its dumb

[Peter 615]

1960 crowns were making a fortune in the 60/70's as were all the buzz key dates.

Common coins such as Geo 111 Shillings George 11 Lima are still making far over the top.

One particular coin I'm arfter tonight is still nicely priced.....I can feel a snipe coming on.

[scott 144]

one particular coin i'm after is going cheap.. better not be the penny i have eye on :/

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...=tab%3DWatching

notice the top part of the 3 is flatter like the open 3 version

Edited October 25, 2009 by scott

[Peter 615]

It went far too high Twice what I was winning to pay and ....Sunday night sniping isn't as easy. Oh well off to the pub

[VickySilver 830]

OK, what penny?

[Peter 615]

It was a farthing and went for 4x book....a rare coin and not common even on Ebay....bah humbug etc

[Coppers 58]

Do you have a link to that ebay auction?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Coppers

[Peter 615]

Here is the link to the farthing

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEDWX:IT

[Colin G. 147]

Here is the link to the farthing

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEDWX:IT

Peter I was also watching that one!!

[Peter 615]

Here is the link to the farthing

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEDWX:IT

Peter I was also watching that one!!

It certainly has eye appeal. 1734 is a difficult date...as it happens there is a lesser 1734 finishing tomorrow but it is not very nice and has a tinge of green...I won't be bidding.

Several of Mr Bennets coins also went for good money (1731,41 & 1856).

The market for copper still seems strong.

[VickySilver 830]

Hi Peter, Can you "linkify" the 1856 farthing?

[Hussulo 6]

I can honestly put my hand on heart and say I've made more money selling coins then I've lost and I truly believe if I sold my collection I would make a profit, but I always try and buy coins with nice eye appeal and tend to stay away from problem coins. I am quite picky when it comes to buying in both quality and price (although there is the odd occasion when I really want a coin and my heart wins over my head).

If you have been collecting for a while and you've seen the good the bad and the ugly and you choose coins that look nice to you the chances are when you come to sell them they will also appeal to others and thus will be easier to sell and perhaps will obtain a better price.

I agree with with Chingford in that the easiest way to make money in coins is to find a rare variety but that is hard to do on internet as someone else has probably spotted it and if its on an auction site it will most likely be bided up. Although I've had a couple of nice finds they are few and far in between so if you are in it for purely the "investment" you could be out of luck.

I think its safe to say that most of us (or our nearest and dearest) would like to make some money when the time comes to pass our coins onto new collectors, after all the coins will still be here when were gone.

It all depends how long a time frame you want to make the money in. If you buy a coin and sell it after a long time ie 20 years chances are you will sell it for more then you purchased it but will it have made a good return on your money?

Typically higher grade coins or rarer varieties (as long as more aren't discovered, you don't pay over the odds in the first place, or they fall out of favour) tend to do better as a form of investment.

If you want to make money over a short period of time then you have your work cut out for you. To do this you obviously need to buy low and sell higher, which is harder then it sound (have you ever watched Bargain Hunt ).

Dealers know their market, know how much they can pay for a coin and have an idea of how quick they can sell it and for how much but that is also why they usually have to pay below book price when buying, so the successful ones tend to do well over shorter term "investments".

The "investors" that will make the big money or that stand the biggest chance of making money are the ones that spend big and buy the best. The "Millennia Collection" auction comes to mind.

Like most things since there is money to be made in coins you will get people that don't know much about them wanting to invest and like anything else some will make money and some will loose.

I remember a while back noticing an advert for Noble Investments (UK) in Coin News offering to help guide new collectors with their purchases and assist investors which I believe they still do.

I guess there are three types of collectors.

The investors.

The people that collect for fun.

The higher end collectors or combination of the above two.

I think most of us will start of as the fun collector. Over time you will spend more and more money and try to buy better and better coins for your sets or collection type and sooner or latter whether you like it or not you will have one foot over the investor line.

I also think its safe to say once you have a fair bit of money tied into coins then they do become an investment whether its directly planned or indirect.

At the end of the day if you collect coins as a hobby and you enjoy collecting for whatever various reason/s then the investment part will only really an after consideration if at all. Most of us build sets or collect certain types of coins because we want to (as a challenge, because we appreciate the designs, because they mean something to us..) and not because we think they are going to be a good investment.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Hussulo

[Peter 615]

Hi Peter, Can you "linkify" the 1856 farthing?

Sorry but I have deleted it from my watch list....I believe it was a VF with a few dings and not really what I look for.

I do have the 2 George 11 farthings though....both nice.....but not nice enough.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT