Very worn coin but with distinctive feature (help)

[renault.rich 0]

Hi I found this large copper coin while metal detecting in a field near cockington village, Torquay in United Kingdom it is very worn and not much to look at but it does have very distinctive indentations off to one side on either side of it. I think the shape of the indentation is either square or shield shape. The coin measures 32mm and around 4mm thick. I have never seen a coin before like this but im sure someone who has seen one like this before would easy recognize it via the location of the square/shield shape dents. Any help on this one would be great, cheers guys

Many thanks Richard feature

[Flash 26]

Hi - Are you sure it's copper. To me this appears to be a Lead "trading token" these were issued unnoficially by pretty much anyone and used medieval through to early Georgian. Additionally simple discs of lead were used for many other purposes from dress/curtain weights through to scale weights etc.

[renault.rich 0]

Hi flash thanks for your reply. I have had a closer look at it today and you are right it is made of lead and not copper. I have also tried to clean it up a little more but it’s still not much to go off and I have also had a look around the web for one similar but with no result. To say that it is made of lead which does not corrode very easily it is in very bad condition. Do you think this is a home made token and probably a one off and that’s the reason that I can not find any other the same? Any more info on this would be great.

Cheers Richard

[Flash 26]

Hi - They were locally and unofficially made and do appear in a huge number of different types. To the best of my knowledge they're all but impossible to accurately date or attribute. Finds identified by Gordon Bailey states the majority are associated with the 17th and 18th centuries however from your image it may not even be a token and could possibly be an unofficial/domestic weight of some kind. I'm afraid identifying when there is no solid pattern or lettering is next to impossible.

I'm sure you know but old lead which has whitened (it's a sort of oxidisation I suppose) is extremely toxic so please take care and don't lick it!

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

As you probably know, being a detectorist, statistically, it's almost certainly Roman - most coins found in fields in the UK are.

If it was me, I'd stick it in a small pot of Olive Oil and forget about it for a while (3 months +)

You could also cruise ebay for pictures of uncleaned Roman coins, see what you thought, maybe even buy some for comparison.

Ultimately though, whatever it's made of, I doubt you'll ever identify it.

Good luck.

[Flash 26]

Sorry to dispute but it's definitely not Roman it's lead and putting it in Olive oil will just badly stain it.

[renault.rich 0]

Hi thanks for all your replies, I do not believe it to be roman as there is no roman activity at all in this area the Romans never really made it into Devon they got as far as Exeter built a very small fort there and that was it really. I think this is just going to be one of them finds for my unidentified finds box as theres not much to go off and its not really much to look at.

Cheers for all your help and im sure i will be posting more coins on here that i find in the future.

Many thanks Richard

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

  Flash said:

Sorry to dispute but it's definitely not Roman

No problem at all sir, there should be more disputes in life as long as they're done properly.

I don't know how you can rule out it being Roman. The Romans were in Devon for around 25 years based at Exeter, but in Britain for 400 years, anything is possible, including the everyday use of Roman artefacts by the locals.

Unfortunately it's unidentifiable, but the point I was making is that if you find anything in a field, whatever it is, it's far more likely to be Roman than anything else. The Roman occupation of Britain accounts for nearly a quarter of the last two millennia.

Regards to all.

[Flash 26]

Hi - We can rule out Roman as it's made of lead. There is a slight possibility that it's a Roman pan weight but it's much more likely that it's a private issue token as mentioned as they are very common detector finds.

I've been agonizing over whether or not to get back into metal detecting again and keep putting it off. I'm in Cheshire which isn't a bad county for Roman activity although finds of coins here are generally 1st and 2nd centuries therefore not as common as the 4th century areas where the AE's were lost in their thousands. Still I'd rather have a Denarius than a field full of Constantine loose change any day!

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I've got one, though I don't use it much.

There is something about it that makes me feel shifty, as if I have to constantly look over my shoulder - I never feel relaxed while detecting, myself.

Also, I think maybe one has to find something 'encouraging' early doors, or the belief fades and the mud becomes more of an issue.

On a side note, I believe the Saxon word for hiding something is 'Banken'

It's all out there somewhere.

As I said, I don't do it very often, but not many things make the heart lurch like a contact, hope springs eternal.

Go on, buy a detector.

[renault.rich 0]

I would be so happy even just to find one roman coin or brooch as I have never found anything roman yet there is not much history down here in Devon and next to no roman activity. Even the big excavations done by archeologists 36 miles away from me in Exeter found hardly any roman metal work but I am going away up to cirencester next mouth for 2 days and I am really hoping to come back with a few roman coins for my collection the only problem I face is once im there is trying to get permission off local farmers to let me onto there land and my past experiences with farmers has not been very good most of the time the answear from them is no so I just hope I don’t waist my 2 days wondering around trying to get permission. Anyone got any tips on getting permission.

Many thanks Richard

[Peckris 579]

  renault.rich said:

I would be so happy even just to find one roman coin or brooch as I have never found anything roman yet there is not much history down here in Devon and next to no roman activity. Even the big excavations done by archeologists 36 miles away from me in Exeter found hardly any roman metal work but I am going away up to cirencester next mouth for 2 days and I am really hoping to come back with a few roman coins for my collection the only problem I face is once im there is trying to get permission off local farmers to let me onto there land and my past experiences with farmers has not been very good most of the time the answear from them is no so I just hope I don’t waist my 2 days wondering around trying to get permission. Anyone got any tips on getting permission.

Many thanks Richard

No problem - I used to live in Cirencester, and have excavated on Roman digs there too. The local lore is "Dig in your back garden and before long you will turn up a mosaic", and that's not so far from the truth. I'm wondering if you need to bother with farmers? In Ciren, all you need is any old grassy bank, or bed of nettles, or riverside walk, or deserted garden or other property, and just take it from there.

If you're really serious, get some advice from the Corinium Museum in the town centre, they will have experience of what you're asking. And while you're in there, look out for a bronze clasp containing a set of manicure instruments in perfect condition - I found that!

[renault.rich 0]

Wow that sounds great your getting me excited about going now I would love to come away with something roman, so do you really think I have high chances of finding any roman coins or do you think much of the area would have already been gone over dozens of times by metal detectorists. Also where do you think the best place to try is I mean most of the town within the roman walled area has now been built on so the only places really available are the areas surrounding cirencester out side of the old roman wall but will this still be a good place to hunt or did the Romans mainly keep to the inside of there walled area. Also yes I think I will take a vist to the museum and I will also report anything I find to them plus keep an eye out for the manicure set you found.

Many thanks Richard

[Flash 26]

As mentioned finding something good early on in your detecting creer is essential to maintaining moral. I was extremely luckly in that the fields surrounding my house at the time were liberally scattered with roman finds. My first Roman coin was a Denarius of Augustus ca 4bc and my first Hammered a Groat of Queen Mary all within sight of home. Luckily one of the best detectorists in the north west lived a few doors away and we detected almost daily until his death, when I stopped detecting. He had found an absolutely amazing 32 Roman brooches on this local farm! and at the time of his detah we were working on two Denarius hoards (small and possibly purse drops) and two hammered hoards, one of which was also possibly a purse drop. The sad thing was that weeks after his death a local metal detecting club believed they knew where the hoards were and arranged a rally to clear them out - they were in totally the wrong areas and found nothing. I found this disrepectful and on mentioning it to the club secretary was told "well he's dead isn't he".

Anyway back to the plot. If you don't drop lucky on the first farm you detect on all I can say is make freinds with some of the local detectorists. Bill and I detected with a lady who was exceptional at gaining permission - if all else fails I know from experience that farmers will give permission to a woman where a man has failed infact I don't think Joy was ever turned down and toward the end we had permission on around 30 farms.

Also important is your machine - you absolutely definitely totally have to have the ability to filter out iron, if your finding any iron at all you've got the wrong machine. With me it's a Minelab Explorer or nothing!!

Oh and finally always record your relevant finds with the finds liason officer who work for the portable antiquities scheme. Everything Bill and I found was logged and it really is important for future research although more often than not I had to identify the coins for them.

I've got to get back into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[renault.rich 0]

It sounds like a good place to hunt where you are I wish there was more history round where I am. I have been metal detecting for around two years now and I do have a good collection of finds and lots of coins but my oldest coin is only around 300 years old my detector is a Garrett GTI 1500 and yes it is great at discriminating iron out, to be honest I have never really had it set to find iron there’s just to much of it in the ground and it always just seems to be junk when I do dig it. Well if you do ever get back into it and would like some company I would be quite happy to drive up to chesher every now and then I like to get away and do a little detecting over a weekend etc. My father is also into metal detecting and some times he comes along with me with his detector, I also believe it’s more fun when there are two of you. I have been looking on the internet to find some roman sites that I could mybe go to hunt at but I have found that the moment anyone finds anything roman in an area the national trust or English heritage rush in and make it a scheduled monument. It would be good to find a virgin site that is not Scheduled.

Many thanks Richard