The Great Recoinage of 1816

[Sylvester 15]

Something that i've been wondering about for years but never got an answer to is, what happened to the copper coinage during the Great Recoinage?

The old silver and gold were called in and demonetised and a large supply of coins of a new design were struck to replace them, however, this appears not to have been the case with the copper coinage. So did the pre-1816 copper remain in circulation, or was it token coinage that had to fill the void until the copper started being produced again? Would George II and earlier coins still be around in the 1820s?

I'm afraid copper/bronze coinage is a huge black hole in my numismatic knowledge.

[scott 144]

i think anything from cartwheel series onward was in circulation at that time (up to 1860 i think)

[Red Riley 2]

Something that i've been wondering about for years but never got an answer to is, what happened to the copper coinage during the Great Recoinage?

The old silver and gold were called in and demonetised and a large supply of coins of a new design were struck to replace them, however, this appears not to have been the case with the copper coinage. So did the pre-1816 copper remain in circulation, or was it token coinage that had to fill the void until the copper started being produced again? Would George II and earlier coins still be around in the 1820s?

I'm afraid copper/bronze coinage is a huge black hole in my numismatic knowledge.

I have read reports of 1797 pennies circulating up to and beyond the introduction of the bronze coinage in 1860. They and the 1806/7 pennies were known collectively as 'farmers' after 'Farmer George' (George III's nickname - due to his interest in animal husbandry etc.). All copper coins including half-farthings were finally demonetised in 1869.

[Peckris 579]

Copper already had its "Great Recoinage" in 1797. Though due to the size of the coins and the fluctuating price of copper, they had to have a second Great Recoinage in 1806/7. We all know how common these coppers are, so there would have been many in circulation. It is probably safe to say that the copper coins crisis was largely over by 1816, and this is probably confirmed by the fact that the Mint saw no need to issue any until 1821, and then, only farthings for five years. You could even say that many of the silver coins after 1816 were in fact copper

It may well be also be true that tokens and George II & III pre-machine coppers continued to circluate (and tokens were still being issued in the Regency era). There was no great pressure to ease this situation, it seems.

[scottishmoney 29]

Nicholas Holmes in the History of Small Change in Scotland cites surveys from the 1840s in the north of England that testify to the circulation of significant numbers of the 1797 dated coinage even 40 years after it was first issued. Fewer numbers of 1806/7 coins were found, and then the next coppers in circulation were the GIV and WIV pieces.

[Red Riley 2]

Nicholas Holmes in the History of Small Change in Scotland cites surveys from the 1840s in the north of England that testify to the circulation of significant numbers of the 1797 dated coinage even 40 years after it was first issued. Fewer numbers of 1806/7 coins were found, and then the next coppers in circulation were the GIV and WIV pieces.

What amazes me is that with the exception of a few years in which a collective total of over 10 million copper coins were issued, none of them were produced in very large numbers (1806/7 might be exceptions but my books leave the mintages as 'unrecorded'). When the new bronze coins hit the streets in 1860-3, the numbers involved were humungously more than the copper coins they replaced. Since I have never read of small change shortages up to 1860, I wonder why we needed so many more coins starting in the latter part of the 19th century - maybe 10 or 20 times the numbers circulating pre-bronze. Yes, the population was increasing, but not by that much surely? Does anybody have an answer to this?

[josie 8]

Nicholas Holmes in the History of Small Change in Scotland cites surveys from the 1840s in the north of England that testify to the circulation of significant numbers of the 1797 dated coinage even 40 years after it was first issued. Fewer numbers of 1806/7 coins were found, and then the next coppers in circulation were the GIV and WIV pieces.

What amazes me is that with the exception of a few years in which a collective total of over 10 million copper coins were issued, none of them were produced in very large numbers (1806/7 might be exceptions but my books leave the mintages as 'unrecorded'). When the new bronze coins hit the streets in 1860-3, the numbers involved were humungously more than the copper coins they replaced. Since I have never read of small change shortages up to 1860, I wonder why we needed so many more coins starting in the latter part of the 19th century - maybe 10 or 20 times the numbers circulating pre-bronze. Yes, the population was increasing, but not by that much surely? Does anybody have an answer to this?

Maybe they needed more smaller denomination for buying goods coming from thier wages effects of the industrial revolution.

[scottishmoney 29]

What amazes me is that with the exception of a few years in which a collective total of over 10 million copper coins were issued, none of them were produced in very large numbers (1806/7 might be exceptions but my books leave the mintages as 'unrecorded'). When the new bronze coins hit the streets in 1860-3, the numbers involved were humungously more than the copper coins they replaced. Since I have never read of small change shortages up to 1860, I wonder why we needed so many more coins starting in the latter part of the 19th century - maybe 10 or 20 times the numbers circulating pre-bronze. Yes, the population was increasing, but not by that much surely? Does anybody have an answer to this?

I have to suggest that indeed it does have to deal with a great expansion of the economy and more disposable income that necessitated more coinage. There are parallels in the USA during the time, when the large cents of 1793-1857 were minted they were never minted in quantities in more than 3-4 million per year, but that seemed to be sufficient for the times, but then when the small sized cents were minted beginning in 1857 they were minted in much larger quantities that were often 10 times the previous large cent size mintages. The early Victorian era saw an expansion of consumer spending on a scale not seen before, while it pales in comparison to today, then it was much more than say the Georgian era.

Remember this was the era of the Great Exhibition of 1851, Britain and the United States were seeing their economies expanding on an unprecedented scale, the result was that much more coinage was necessitated.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

We're all guessing, but I'm going to speculate 3 factors are involved;

1. The powers that be had been planning this for a number of years, withdrawing copper from circulation, learning from the mistakes of previous recoinages they had been minting for several years in advance of 1860. This could explain why there are so many different dies around from that time - experimentation before launch. My point being that this was more organised and planned than any previous re-coinage - which have tended to be done under pressure.

2. The population wasn't so much expanding, more moving into the cities from the countryside. Folk who previously could have got by with very little coin since they lived in close knit rural communities where everyone knew each other, suddenly needed to be able to pay their way on demand to strangers on a daily basis. I'll give you a chicken on Friday, Bert, didn't work anymore.

3. In a way, it's a small movement toward token coinage, worthless metals are being introduced to improve the durability of the coin. OK, I know it's only 5% or so, but maybe it was felt that there would be resistance and that could be best overcome by making them so ubiquitous that people would have no choice but to accept them ?

Maybe....

[Peckris 579]

We're all guessing, but I'm going to speculate 3 factors are involved;

1. The powers that be had been planning this for a number of years, withdrawing copper from circulation, learning from the mistakes of previous recoinages they had been minting for several years in advance of 1860. This could explain why there are so many different dies around from that time - experimentation before launch. My point being that this was more organised and planned than any previous re-coinage - which have tended to be done under pressure.

2. The population wasn't so much expanding, more moving into the cities from the countryside. Folk who previously could have got by with very little coin since they lived in close knit rural communities where everyone knew each other, suddenly needed to be able to pay their way on demand to strangers on a daily basis. I'll give you a chicken on Friday, Bert, didn't work anymore.

3. In a way, it's a small movement toward token coinage, worthless metals are being introduced to improve the durability of the coin. OK, I know it's only 5% or so, but maybe it was felt that there would be resistance and that could be best overcome by making them so ubiquitous that people would have no choice but to accept them ?

Maybe....

I'd agree with your analysis of social changes, but don't discount the population growth, which increased exponentially from the start of the 19th Century to its end due to the Industrial Revolution. Though I'm sure you're right that the 1860 bronze recoinage had been slowly planned for years, as the railway boom had been dramatically revolutionising British life for 20 years or more by then. The 19th Century saw a far greater change in technology and society than the much-vaunted 20th Century. The coinage would have to reflect these changes, and also be reflected by them.

[declanwmagee 122]

Nicholas Holmes in the History of Small Change in Scotland cites surveys from the 1840s in the north of England that testify to the circulation of significant numbers of the 1797 dated coinage even 40 years after it was first issued. Fewer numbers of 1806/7 coins were found, and then the next coppers in circulation were the GIV and WIV pieces.

What amazes me is that with the exception of a few years in which a collective total of over 10 million copper coins were issued, none of them were produced in very large numbers (1806/7 might be exceptions but my books leave the mintages as 'unrecorded'). When the new bronze coins hit the streets in 1860-3, the numbers involved were humungously more than the copper coins they replaced. Since I have never read of small change shortages up to 1860, I wonder why we needed so many more coins starting in the latter part of the 19th century - maybe 10 or 20 times the numbers circulating pre-bronze. Yes, the population was increasing, but not by that much surely? Does anybody have an answer to this?

I believe it's known as Quantitative Easing...

[josie 8]

Very strong farthing.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

C.R.Josset, in his book Money in Britain (Frederick Warne & Co Ltd, London 1962) has this to say about the 1860 recoinage;

"This change, oddly enough, can be traced to the French Revolution. When the revolutionary mob tore down the church bells, they could find no market for the bell metal. Eventually it was sent to the Paris mint for conversion into money after copper had been added. The coins made from this alloy became popularly known as 'sous des clochers' (belfry halfpennies). A few years later Napoleon had much of this large accumulation melted down. As the supply dwindled more copper was added until a point was reached at which a workable mixture was found. This alloy was made legal in France in 1852 and was adopted by Great Britain and many other countries a few years later."

I think this is circumstancial support for the argument that the change to bronze was planned from a long way out, perhaps explaining the mintage figures.

It also reminds us how much people cared about the composition of their coins, unlike us today with our cupro nickel muck.

[scottishmoney 29]

People did not care about the token issues like the halfpennies and pennies, they really only cared about the composition of the gold and silver coins. Nowadays we don't care one way or another, because it is all a nearly worthless token coinage.