Request for values from 2010 catalogue

[Mat 2]

Hi, would anyone with the spink 2010 book be kind enough to tell me the values for spink 2754. (I know I swore earlier in the year I wouldn’t need or buy one) I have stuck it on ebay for £2450 but I only have the 2009 guide to go by which is £925 in F and £2750 in VF, I was just wondering if there is a massive increase from the 09-10 book that might allow me to adjust the price....

Thanks

Mat

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Don't have it either - don't see the need to buy it every year, but I notice that London Coins had one in their sale 6/7th March. Lot 868 VG and estimated at £750-£1250. Quick trip to their website should yield the final hammer price ?

[Mat 2]

The one you mention from London coins is different to mine, there are only 5 known of which I think all were in the Alan Barr collection. I actually had mine in London coins march auction, I think mine was lot 867, London coins described it as good VF with an estimate of £2400-£2800 but it didn’t sell so trying it on ebay: 290417824465

I was less than impressed with how London coins handled my coins, I asked them to return my unsold lots, (3 coins with a total value of £4000) and they didn’t use any protection at all, just slung them in pvc cases that were too small for the coins and put them in a normal envelope. At least they used special delivery to return them!

[azda 979]

Hi, would anyone with the spink 2010 book be kind enough to tell me the values for spink 2754. (I know I swore earlier in the year I wouldn’t need or buy one) I have stuck it on ebay for £2450 but I only have the 2009 guide to go by which is £925 in F and £2750 in VF, I was just wondering if there is a massive increase from the 09-10 book that might allow me to adjust the price....

Thanks

Mat

Spink 2010 prices are as follows............. F 950 and VF 3000

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

The one you mention from London coins is different to mine, there are only 5 known of which I think all were in the Alan Barr collection. I actually had mine in London coins march auction, I think mine was lot 867, London coins described it as good VF with an estimate of £2400-£2800 but it didn’t sell so trying it on ebay: 290417824465 /quote]

Ah so, I see it. Nice coin.

Be interesting to see if you get any interest.

I fear though, that this is a practical illustration of the point we were talking about a few months back and how difficult it is to aportion a value to a coin at any moment in time, unlike other commodities which have a tradeable value. with coins, the more so if they hold extra value through rarity, you have to find someone who wants to buy it and as you know, that is not always easy.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on ?

[azda 979]

Personally, i would'nt start it at 2450, i'd start at a pound and place a reserve on it, you will then be enticing people to make a bid, and you also didn't list the spink number

[Mat 2]

Thanks for giving me the values azda, and I have amended the listing accordingly, I didn’t realise I omitted the Spink ref!

Its a tricky one these rare C1 crowns, as you say £400 For A Penny about the ease of finding a buyer, its the very last of the Alan Barr crowns I have in my possession, the second but last I managed to get rid of at W&W last year but this one I have been stuck with for quite a while. I don’t tend to (or have been reluctant to in the past) to list coins on ebay worth over £1500, I usually find over that price I can yield better prices at the auction houses but market changes/ebay expansion etc etc it might pay off in terms of interest but in terms of price we shall see. There is 10 watchers on it so far... I might try and tempt some of the other ebay sellers to do some swops with me to see if I can get some more easily manageable pieces which will obviously sell easier...

[coin watch 1]

Hi, would anyone with the spink 2010 book be kind enough to tell me the values for spink 2754. (I know I swore earlier in the year I wouldn’t need or buy one) I have stuck it on ebay for £2450 but I only have the 2009 guide to go by which is £925 in F and £2750 in VF, I was just wondering if there is a massive increase from the 09-10 book that might allow me to adjust the price....

Thanks

Mat

Hi Mat,

Good luck with your ebay auction, seems a reasonalbe price for such a coin. But I thought I would point out that in the Alan Barr catalogue this coin is described as being Cooper dies VIII/X and being one of only two known with this die combo and with the condition noted as F, this would be Mark Rasmussen`s essesment and so sure to be correct, but the 1b type in it`s self has certainly more than just "5 known" With three mintmarks used for the 1b being lis,cross and castle with the usual overmarks too. Of the three coins in the Barr collection with this castle mark it suggests a total of 13 coins known and this as said with just the castle mark. Please don`t think I am having a go I just think if you are to sell such a coin with an excellent pedigree on ebay it`s worth getting it correct just so there are no comebacks. BTW this coin was also in the Cooper collection, I think worth noting.

[Mat 2]

Hi Coin watch, your just the man I need at the moment!

I don’t have the Barr catalogue my copy disappeared somewhere, I had 27 I think from the Barr sale and over time I am sure I have attached the wrong descriptions to the coins when I sent them to the auction houses, they never seem to check!

Please could you compile the correct title for this crown for me? So you’re saying this one I have is only one of two known with these dies?

Please could you also look up another one for me out of interest, I sold this with W&W last year: “Charles I Tower Mint under the King crown, group III, type 3a, mintmark crown over bell / crown third horseman FRC XV/XXXI, fine/good fine, apparently 1 of 5 known in private hands, estimated £1,900, realised £1,955.†I was under the impression this one was also 1 of 5 known (crown over bell) but I was told recently that it was actually one of two known! Please could you clarify that for me if it true or not?

Sorry if I am asking a lot from you, believe it or not I much much prefer milled coins!

Thanks

Mat

[coin watch 1]

Hi Coin watch, your just the man I need at the moment!

I don’t have the Barr catalogue my copy disappeared somewhere, I had 27 I think from the Barr sale and over time I am sure I have attached the wrong descriptions to the coins when I sent them to the auction houses, they never seem to check!

Please could you compile the correct title for this crown for me? So you’re saying this one I have is only one of two known with these dies?

Please could you also look up another one for me out of interest, I sold this with W&W last year: “Charles I Tower Mint under the King crown, group III, type 3a, mintmark crown over bell / crown third horseman FRC XV/XXXI, fine/good fine, apparently 1 of 5 known in private hands, estimated £1,900, realised £1,955.†I was under the impression this one was also 1 of 5 known (crown over bell) but I was told recently that it was actually one of two known! Please could you clarify that for me if it true or not?

Sorry if I am asking a lot from you, believe it or not I much much prefer milled coins!

Thanks

Mat

Hi Mat,

This 1b Crown was in the Alan Barr part 3 coin #390 29.85g and with a provenance of; Ex Hall, Ex Larsen {144}, ex Cooper {53} and as said one of two known with this particular die pairing as the other one was in the Ryan collection in 1952.

I can`t seem to find the other coin you mention in the Barr collection with the dies XV/XXXI? The die XV would be for the bell mark alone with the crown over bell being die XV* and crown being die XVI {all obverse dies} So the * denotes the overmark therefore your coin would be XV*/XXXI. Having said that, and going by Cooper`s findings, the reverse die XXXI is down as a parliment type used in the mark {P} and {R}

If you want you can PM me with your email and I can maybe help more.

[Mat 2]

Thanks for the very useful help coin watch, I have amended the listing accordingly, and yes I will PM you, I am going away for the weekend so need to go to bed now but when I return I will send you a pic of the crown over bell and we can have a chat.

Thanks again for the big help!

Mat

[Mat 2]

Crown over bell C1 Alan Barr crown

[Peckris 579]

Crown over bell C1 Alan Barr crown

I have to say that the late series hammered coins and the earliest series milled, are not only quite similar in quality, but are very handsome coins.

[coin watch 1]

Crown over bell C1 Alan Barr crown

Hi Mat,

Yes this coin was in the Alan Barr pt IV - coin #537. 29.27g.

Cooper die XV*/XXI* stated as an extremely rare overmark for a crown. With a provenance of Ex W.B.Thorpe {86} Ex Cooper {72} Ex Rodney-Smith and ex Selig {88}

Hope this helps.

[Mat 2]

Crown over bell C1 Alan Barr crown

I have to say that the late series hammered coins and the earliest series milled, are not only quite similar in quality, but are very handsome coins.

I wonder why the milling methods of producing coins didnt really take off for another 100 years after they produced the milled Elizabeth 1st sixpences, surely they thought they were better then hammered??

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

There was a bit of a hoo ha about it, a good old fashioned British tantrum about machines taking away skilled workers jobs. Partly to do with that and partly to do with the fact that it was a Frenchman Peter Blondeau who was championing milled coinage.

As you know Charles II produced the first milled coins to see proper circulation, a large part of the motivation for doing that was to remove the coins of the hated Commonwealth fron circulation, so we got them in the end.

[Peckris 579]

There was a bit of a hoo ha about it, a good old fashioned British tantrum about machines taking away skilled workers jobs. Partly to do with that and partly to do with the fact that it was a Frenchman Peter Blondeau who was championing milled coinage.

As you know Charles II produced the first milled coins to see proper circulation, a large part of the motivation for doing that was to remove the coins of the hated Commonwealth fron circulation, so we got them in the end.

Yes, although the milled coins were clearly superior, apparently the Mint workers whose jobs were threatened staged a 'rigged' trial to 'demonstrate' that milling was much slower than hammering. It probably WAS slower, but not by that much.

[Mat 2]

For those how followed an interest in this thread on the rare C1 crown I managed to sell it for a small loss, just under what I was asking for it. The buyer has asked me not to disclose the exact amount though... So all good managed to release the funds for more buys!