Grading Question on acquired sovereign

[darren 0]

Hi all I've only been a member of this forum for a week and have recently caught the coin bug so please excuse my naivety! I have acquired an 1872 Shield Sovereign , London Mint without a die number. Its Spink number 3852C page 432 Spink 42nd edition 2010. I paid £242 for the example Slabbed by PCGS at AU58.Does this mean that it UNC or EF ?

Pics below of coin in slab taken by seller.Believe me these pictures do not do this coin any justice.

I do really appreciate responses by you guys here and I feel I've learned so much in such a short space of time from this forum. Thanks.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Hello Darren,

I haven't been paying close attention (a fact that has infuriated many a teacher and spouse down the years) but did I see in another post by you another sovereign ?

If it's sovereigns you're interested in, you really need a copy of the standard refernce on the things, which is 'Marsh', I've got a spare copy if you want it.

As for that coin, tha American grading companies use something called the Sheldon scale, it's all a bit subjective, but it does look a better sort of EF to my eye. Gold is such a soft metal that the detail around the queens temple wears so quickly.

Rgds,

[darren 0]

Hello Darren,

I haven't been paying close attention (a fact that has infuriated many a teacher and spouse down the years) but did I see in another post by you another sovereign ?

If it's sovereigns you're interested in, you really need a copy of the standard refernce on the things, which is 'Marsh', I've got a spare copy if you want it.

As for that coin, tha American grading companies use something called the Sheldon scale, it's all a bit subjective, but it does look a better sort of EF to my eye. Gold is such a soft metal that the detail around the queens temple wears so quickly.

Rgds,

Thanks for the offer of the 'Marsh' book, very kind. I have two copies of the book, 2002 and the 2007 reprint. Sadly Michael Marsh passed away in 2006 so the latest edition isn't updated. You are correct in assuming my main interest is in sovereigns . If you have a first edition (1980 Brown Cover) Of The Gold Sovereign, or 1999 edition (Green Cover) I would be interested in purchasing one. Brown cover £30-£45 & Green £120-£160 depending on condition.

Well back to the coins! I am contemplating on sending some coins to CGS UK for grading and slabbing but I may just purchase 'The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins ' from the main Predecimal website and have a go myself! I'm not over keen on slabs!

Thanks for reply and book offer.

Regards

Darren

[Leviathan 0]

Slabbing is one of those things I am so on the fence about.. basically, and I don't want to offend, I have no faith in the US ones, and that lends me to not have faith full stop.. but, and this is a big but.. some coins I really don't want to be ruined/hurt, and so slabbing seems like a good idea.

Sorry for the digression folks.

[VickySilver 836]

The coin looks to have good lustre but a bit of field chatter in the obv. fields in addition to the points already broached. May go CGS 70 or possibly 75 dep. how it looks in hand would be my guess.

[darren 0]

Thanks for comments. I feel the picture does not do the coin justice due to being encased in a slab. I've tried scanning the slab but my HP all in one doesn't do the job very well. Most of the marks shown on the picture are actually on the slab. The relief on Victoria's' bust is also much more defined than shown in the picture.

I was tempted to break it out of the slab, but I feel it will probably fetch more ££££ in years to come slabbed. ..... Why do people pay crazy money for slabbed coins?

[VickySilver 836]

Actually there is quite a bit of confusion about slabs, and unfortunately many companies willing to give it a go. PCGS is usually thought of as a bit more reliable than the others, definately with US coins, but generally with others as well. Unfortunately they do make errors which I have seen most often in attribution but the grading is generally a bit more reproducible. CGS not too bad but have caught them out on varietal errors as well. NGC is used by many US collectors of what to them are foreign coins and has probably been the most popular on the US side of the pond.

I do not think that slabbing makes high price a certainty as the slab needs to contain a rare bit or one exceptionally well preserved to bring the big price, or at least so it seems in my experience.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Thanks for comments. I feel the picture does not do the coin justice due to being encased in a slab. I've tried scanning the slab but my HP all in one doesn't do the job very well. Most of the marks shown on the picture are actually on the slab. The relief on Victoria's' bust is also much more defined than shown in the picture.

I was tempted to break it out of the slab, but I feel it will probably fetch more ££££ in years to come slabbed. ..... Why do people pay crazy money for slabbed coins?

The craziness in the coin market isn't solely to do with slabs, it appears to be quite random - then again if it was predictable it wouldn't be crazy I suppose.

I wouldn't of thought that a British coin in an American slab would attract any kind of premium and I also think that the sovereign is one of least suited coins for slabbing as a lot of the protective benefits offered aren't necessary what with gold being a noble metal - as long as you don't scratch them you can keep them where you like.

I also think that you're doing the right thing choosing to collect sovereigns as a relative newcomer. If there is such a thing as a beginners coin, it is the Sov, because one is always insulated against mistakes by the underlying gold price. If you took out a hammer and battered it flat, it would still be worth £170 odd, so the margin for grading trial and error is so much less than on a base metal coin. You will know yourself that the young head shieldback carries a premium on top of the gold price in any condition, roughly £20, so £190/£200 is your starting point and I would say for £242 you have done OK, perhaps in the cold light of morning, I would downgrade it a fraction, the reverse is very much better than the obverse.

That said, the grade should be your driver before price, although obviously price is a factor, it is just that there is a mountain of material in the market in VF and below. Top grade Sov's are harder to get hold of, but there's a reason for that.

It's great that you have Marsh and also good to come on here and ask questions.

The sovereign is a very rewarding coin in every way, when I started collecting them you could pick up a younghead for £70, best of luck with them.

Rgds,

[azda 979]

Slabs............a topic close to 400s heart. If you are offering the Marsh book 400 i would'nt mind it

[VickySilver 836]

Amazon.com in the USA is selling USED COPIES for 76 USD plus shipping!

[1949threepence 3,367]

Hi all I've only been a member of this forum for a week and have recently caught the coin bug so please excuse my naivety! I have acquired an 1872 Shield Sovereign , London Mint without a die number. Its Spink number 3852C page 432 Spink 42nd edition 2010. I paid £242 for the example Slabbed by PCGS at AU58.Does this mean that it UNC or EF ?

Pics below of coin in slab taken by seller.Believe me these pictures do not do this coin any justice.

I do really appreciate responses by you guys here and I feel I've learned so much in such a short space of time from this forum. Thanks.

To me the obverse looks GEF and the reverse an immaculate UNC. Nice coin/gold investment.

Edited May 1, 2010 by 1949threepence

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Amazon.com in the USA is selling USED COPIES for 76 USD plus shipping!

Seems I may owe you a pint my friend. Took me a week or two to digest this information, I've looked into it now and discover that my 'spare' (which I was about to give away) is in fact a first edition and there is one on ebay, signed admittedly, for £400 !!

So, no, Az you can't have it

[VickySilver 836]

Well, have to take you up on that some time. Cheers! Now I need the companion as I think my son (age 16 months) ate the half sov book.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Now I need the companion as I think my son (age 16 months) ate the half sov book.

Oh dear !

Rather dry I would have thought ?

Meaning no reference to Mr Marsh's style....

[VickySilver 836]

Well, evidently salivation at that age is not a problem and he regularly gives showers to all who play with him.

I wonder if an update could be done on either the half sov or sov books with perhaps a bit more commentary and perhaps graphing date versus scarcity (if not value which is such a moving target).

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Well, evidently salivation at that age is not a problem and he regularly gives showers to all who play with him.

I wonder if an update could be done on either the half sov or sov books with perhaps a bit more commentary and perhaps graphing date versus scarcity (if not value which is such a moving target).

I stand to be corrected, but I believe Mr Marsh has passed away, relatively recently ?

So I'm guessing there won't be any upgrades for a while, although being the standard reference, I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought 'the franchise'

Spink have a long history of re-issuing standard works of reference.

Have you tried a non paper based diet on the Nipper ? Or failing that, increasing the texture of the feed, blotting paper perhaps......

[azda 979]

400 offering a pint, i'll be over 1st flight before old age sets in

[VickySilver 836]

Yes, believe Marsh passed away in '07 or so...

Actually little man likes hummus (?) best of all, don' t ask. Actually a good thing because a lot of other foods can be hidden up in all that garlic...