Rare Bun Head Penny

[scott 144]

the americans pay far more for a simple doubling thats more or less invisible to the naked eye.

the smaller/narrow dates are obviously differant and therefore listed correctly as varietys, its when we get the tiny differance we call errors and repunches it gets complicated, 2 differant sized dates to me are varietys (1858 farthing small and large dates, the 1877 and 1879 narrow dates look totaly differant and obvious).

honestly i have a collection of US cents, and there are about 15-20+ varietys which are mostly repuches of mintmarks :/, if you do this with 1860 and 1861 pennys you would have HUNDREDS of varietys as there are differant placements of the numbers themselves to consider. and probably each die number would be listed in the silver series.

we currently say that 1895-1901 date spacing is worth more if its extra wide or narrow, considering the fact there are differant spacing, we dont list every single location of the numerals of a variety as the americans do, we just generalise.

we have our established varietys yet some are very hard to value properly due to lack of listings for them.

(1895/96 LARGE/SMALL ROSE shillings, 1858 small date farthings are very undervalued for thier rarity)

if you have 2 coins side by side and there is a NOTICABLE differance (like the above 2) then yes its a variety

[davidrj 194]

the americans pay far more for a simple doubling thats more or less invisible to the naked eye.

Most US coins have astronomic mintages, so minor varieties add interest and something for collectors to search out

if you have 2 coins side by side and there is a NOTICABLE differance (like the above 2) then yes its a variety

My view is if you can't spot a difference on a VF coin it's a minor variety

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

It's the same with everything that is moved by a middleman Scott.

I've always kept tropical fish on and off and there's a certain type of South American Cichlid (stay with me) that attracts a lot of following.

They used to be either Brown, Blue, Green or Heckel when I started keeping them 25 years ago. These days we are having them listed by the name of the river they were caught in, Rio Ica, Rio Abacaxis, Rio Madeira, Lago Tefe it goes on.

Fact is, they are still the same bleedin fish they were 25 years ago, it's all the people with a vested interest in selling them for a premium that are new.

And it's the same with coins.

Or pretty much anything else which is traded.

So and so school catchment area.....

[Peckris 579]

i want to know what the 2 1895's are about

cant see much differance between it and low tide tbh

OK Scott, if my scanner was working properly I'd send you photos, but it's one of those where you need a ruler and the two coins side by side.

1) On the variety usually known as the '1895 2mm', the angle of the trident and the P of the word 'penny' are 2 mm. apart whereas on the standard issue they are 1 mm. apart;

2) The variety has a slightly lower tide, but on neither type is the tide a particularly prominent feature and on worn examples it may have disappeared altogether. This is what gives rise to the variety's other name of '1895 low tide';

3) The word 'penny' is much more scrunched up on the variety and has noticeably smaller spacings than the word 'one';

4) Britannia is actually very slightly smaller and neater on the 2mm. making her look slightly more elegant.

Hope that answers your question.

Scott, there's a nice 2mm 1895 here 1895 2mm

Here's mine: (That one on eBay has a miserly bid of a tenner on it, no wonder it hasn't reached the reserve price).

[Red Riley 2]

Went to the London Coins auction today. The 1877 narrow date went for a paltry £6k... The guy that won it was sitting quite close to me and was opposed by a telephone bidder. I got the impression he would have gone a lot further if he'd had to.

Of more interest to me, there was an 1860 beaded border, ref. F8B (R18) in the auction in immeasurably better condition which went for 'only' £2,500. This is effectively a pre-production penny and of great historic value. Allright, it realised a reasonable value but why did the chewed up 1877 go for so much more?

It struck me that rarity generally was selling far better than condition, although most lots went at the lower end of estimate. Wreath crowns however seemed to be selling well.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

The guy that won it was sitting quite close to me and was opposed by a telephone bidder. I got the impression he would have gone a lot further if he'd had to.

Interesting intelligence Red.

Did the individual appear stable, or was he maniacal ?

I'm joking

Outside of this skinny date bubble though, you would say the market was what you would expect, i.e. a little bit depressed and not exactly buzzing ?

Hopefully, it's just the two of them and people will keep feeding them until they are done.

[Red Riley 2]

OK here's the lowdown - he had grey hair, wore a crumpled grey suit, the car in the car park was more likely to be a Toyota than a Lamborghini. From his body language I had the impression he wasn't acting for anyone else. I'm afraid he struck me as a typical collector.

Perhaps of as much interest to you 400, the run of the mill bun pennies were a little patchy with some good ones selling well but still some bargains. These are typical:

1861 GEF/AU (this was actually a very good coin) £95(all +17% buyers' premium)

1863 GEF £65

1873 UNC £160

1875 UNC £220

1877 AU/UNC contact marks £65

1877 UNC £190

1879 UNC full lustre £280

1887 UNC uneven toning £38

1888 40% lustre £130

1889 35% lustre £48

1892 40% lustre £65

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Ah So,

The catalogue is out, the wine is poured and I'm spending the rest of the evening analysing that.

I did look earlier but prices realised wasn't online.

Shows the value of a man on the spot.

Buy anything ?

[Red Riley 2]

Buy anything ?

You may not believe this but, no. My collecting is very much at an impasse and I'm unsure which way to go. Of course getting a job might help...

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Buy anything ?

You may not believe this but, no. My collecting is very much at an impasse and I'm unsure which way to go. Of course getting a job might help...

Funny old life isn't it ?

You're not alone, I haven't had a job for 18 months now.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 412]

The coming London coins June sale has a 1877 slender, Lot 2034 - estimate £750-£1500. Has anyone got one in worse or better condition that the one being offered?

And you all remember the 1841 hc in Good/Vgood that w&w sold last time? well there is a lovely one being offered in the London coins auction.

I believe that there is one important fact with the 1877 that needs to be clarified....

It is NOT a "SLENDER 7" as in the 1863 slender 3; it is rather an 1877 "NARROW DATE" as attributed on the slab as well as classified as such by Freeman and Gouby. It is the ENTIRE date that is being attributed, NOT a single digit within it.

EASILY identified as such with the naked eye and a recognized variety. It is NOT an error nor is it known to be a pattern. Admittedly no mintage figures for any date provides a breakdown by die variety, and common sense would lead one to assume that more than the 6 or 7 known were actually struck, but inasmuch as there IS a demand amongst collectors for major varieties, this coin will always command a premium so long as the supply is limited.

Similar logic would apply for the 1908 F-164A, the 1909 F-169, and the 1922 reverse of 1927.

Go back a century or two and you will find widespread instances of spelling errors and other evidence of die-cutting varieties which as a general rule command little or no premium of one type over another.

The difference in the later coins from the 1840's or so onward, is the improvement in die cutting techniques which reduced the differences to a much smaller scale or were indicated by DISTINCT differences in the die itself which provide the fodder for the demand amongst the collector base for the known available varieties, and fuel the search for the discovery of previously UNKNOWN die varieties or pairings.

So long as there is a collector base for an item, there will be a demand for it.

The BOTTOM line is that it is the individual collectors choice to tailor his collecting interest and his collection to his own personal interest. It may be guided by catalogues and guides, the collector community, etc. but should NOT DICTATED or MANDATED to the collector by these or any other source that this is what he MUST collect. This is a HOBBY and a personal one, and should be mandated by ones personal interests.

AND ALTHOUGH NOBODY IS RIGHT OR WRONG; EVERYBODY IS RIGHT....

[1949threepence 3,367]

OK here's the lowdown - he had grey hair, wore a crumpled grey suit, the car in the car park was more likely to be a Toyota than a Lamborghini. From his body language I had the impression he wasn't acting for anyone else. I'm afraid he struck me as a typical collector.

Perhaps of as much interest to you 400, the run of the mill bun pennies were a little patchy with some good ones selling well but still some bargains. These are typical:

1861 GEF/AU (this was actually a very good coin) £95(all +17% buyers' premium)

1863 GEF £65

1873 UNC £160

1875 UNC £220

1877 AU/UNC contact marks £65

1877 UNC £190

1879 UNC full lustre £280

1887 UNC uneven toning £38

1888 40% lustre £130

1889 35% lustre £48

1892 40% lustre £65

From my experience, collectors don't tend to look like flash Harry's.

Edited June 10, 2010 by 1949threepence

[Red Riley 2]

AND ALTHOUGH NOBODY IS RIGHT OR WRONG; EVERYBODY IS RIGHT....

I agree with what you say, but with the following observation: it strikes me that the price of scarcity in bronze pennies is now out of kilter with the rest of the market. I didn't make extensive notes at the auction, but it just seems that other denominations are failing to get anything like the interest that scarce pennies attract. As a penny collector, this worries me as it puts rarities out of my reach in whatever condition. My prediction is that ultimately this bubble will burst as and when the very few top end collectors in the market become satisfied or run out of readies. As we have said, there only needs to be two...

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

From the prices you recorded for 'run of the mill' buns though, there doesn't seem to be a contamination effect as yet, which is obviously a good thing.

I wonder what these fellows exit strategy is, if they have one ?

[azda 979]

What do you all think of this one? recently sold

[Red Riley 2]

What do you all think of this one? recently sold

1875 wide date, I would call it AU perhaps 80% lustre. Good coin. £200 or more?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Red Riley

[azda 979]

It sold for 314 pounds

[1949threepence 3,367]

It sold for 314 pounds

Absolutely no surprise. It's a gorgeous coin.

I'd have paid that for it, to be honest.

[Peckris 579]

It sold for 314 pounds

Absolutely no surprise. It's a gorgeous coin.

I'd have paid that for it, to be honest.

Yes, a real beauty.

[RLC35 288]

What do you all think of this one? recently sold

Azda,

Is that your 1975? It looks like it has a large "1" over a small "1." I can't tell for sure from the pic...but it looks like it.

[azda 979]

It was my coin a little time back when i was'nt into Pennies or copper at all, i dare'nt tell you what i paid for it, i think the guy must have had a rush of blood to the head, it was only 2 figures and less than €60, i nearly ripped his arm off for it. I 'm now kicking myself for letting it go, it was a real beauty. I had it on Ebay and i think i had around 60 watchers at the time.

[Red Riley 2]

I hope you put an adequate reserve on it. I would be having kittens selling that on e-bay.

[azda 979]

I did'nt actually, i thought the look of it would sell it, but i did'nt imagine to that extent, i thought maybe 100 pounds, so i was happy enough with the outcome back then, but in hindsight

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I did'nt actually, i thought the look of it would sell it, but i did'nt imagine to that extent, i thought maybe 100 pounds, so i was happy enough with the outcome back then, but in hindsight

Looks a nice one mate and in my preliminary recon, I believe it's the first time I've seen a '75 in that kind of shape.

Good to know they are 'out there' somewhere....

[azda 979]

Thanks 400, but next time i doubt i'll be selling one in that condition. I just hope i can pick up another/others in that state. Just as a side note, it went up 185 quid on the last minute

Edited June 11, 2010 by azda