Coin Tickets

[TomGoodheart 401]

Do you use them for your coins? Do you pass them on if you sell a coin (I know one dealer who seems to keep his). Would having an old ticket make you more likely to buy a coin if you had a choice of two identical ones; one with a ticket, one without?

Discuss!

And to start, I like to know a bit about the history of my coins. So I appreciate tickets.

I was irritated to see one of my earlier possessions for sale with a vague description and emailed the seller and told him all the information about the coin was on the ticket. From the reply it was clear that the person I sold the coin to hadn't passed on my ticket. What's the point of that I wondered?

Oh and I make my own. I get some cream heavyweight paper, print my initials on it then cut out the disks by hand. Cheaper than getting them printed for me and nicer than plain white ones you can buy ready cut.

[coin watch 1]

As a collector of English hammered I like the idea of a coin purchase that comes with an old ticket, it sometimes gives the coin an added feeling of it being a genuine antique. I think that if a coin has passed through generations of collectors, especially a well known old collection, then the ticket in a way becomes part of that items history and therefore gives it a genuine 100% provenance.

I have a number of old tickets from various collections but my favourite tickets has to be the ones from Herbert Lingford`s collection as his tickets were not only information filled but also wrote in a very attractive old style hand, although I once bought an Ex Lingford coin from a well known dealer and stated as such but it came with no ticket? I can only assume the ticket was discarded-SHAMEFUL

But having said the above I think that coin tickets are a very old fashioned way of referance, I suppose it is the coin cabinet way of things and probably does not fit in with the future {slabbing for example} But I am a traditionalist so long live the coin ticket!

By The Way- I too make my own tickets, I`ve got one of those card shape cutters that cut 25mm diameter discs cut from card with my intials on, a bit conceited I know, but good fun.

[Peckris 579]

I bought a job lot of George V silver (halfcrowns and shillings) at an auction in the 90s. Strange lot : obviously from a dealer at some point as the price sticker in £sd was still on each vinyl envelope, plus a date somewhere in 1969-1970, and many duplicates. Strangely the vinyl envelopes were in gross condition, greasy, weeping, brown and horrid ... yet at some point someone had removed many of the coins and buffed them up nicely, even though most of them were between AEF - GEF. What strange mental process involves deciding to clean coins but leave their disgusting envelopes intact?? I popped them into a decent envelopes. A few years ago I put the remainder of my stock of them into auction, but doubted they would fetch £100. They realised over £200!

As for 'tickets', I'm not quite clear what this term refers to? I assume you must be talking about the rectangular coloured cards in the upper part of Coindex envelopes?

[TomGoodheart 401]

As for 'tickets', I'm not quite clear what this term refers to? I assume you must be talking about the rectangular coloured cards in the upper part of Coindex envelopes?

Coindex envelopes? Now you've confused me!

In the 'olden' days (or present; as people like me still do) collectors usually stored their coins in coin trays (ideally in cabinets). The trays had round holes for the coin and so round pieces of paper (tickets) were used to record details of the coin. These were of a similar size to the tray holes and so could sit neatly under the coin described.

Old tickets from known collectors are of interest because they show with certainty part of the provenance of the coin.

Obviously with newer means of storing coins (flips/slabs) coin tickets aren't so handy. And I guess most collectors now probably keep a computer record of their collection. But tickets are a way of keeping continuity between one collector and another. Below is one from a coin owned by Peter Seaby as an example of what I mean.

[Peckris 579]

As for 'tickets', I'm not quite clear what this term refers to? I assume you must be talking about the rectangular coloured cards in the upper part of Coindex envelopes?

Coindex envelopes? Now you've confused me!

In the 'olden' days (or present; as people like me still do) collectors usually stored their coins in coin trays (ideally in cabinets). The trays had round holes for the coin and so round pieces of paper (tickets) were used to record details of the coin. These were of a similar size to the tray holes and so could sit neatly under the coin described.

Old tickets from known collectors are of interest because they show with certainty part of the provenance of the coin.

Obviously with newer means of storing coins (flips/slabs) coin tickets aren't so handy. And I guess most collectors now probably keep a computer record of their collection. But tickets are a way of keeping continuity between one collector and another. Below is one from a coin owned by Peter Seaby as an example of what I mean.

Hm, obviously I've nnver come across 'old tickets' in my own experience - only similar items written out by the dealers I was buying from.

Coindex envelopes are those vinyl squares, but instead of the curvy 'tuck in' flap there's an extra rectangle pocket welded to the coin section, and in that is a blank piece of card to inscribe coin details (often yellow, or green, or pink). These were supplied in plastic coin trays that were higher than the ordinary card coin trays, to accommodate the higher envelopes. It was a 'system' developed in the late 60s if I remember. If not by Peter Ireland, then he certainly used to supply all his coins in them.

[TomGoodheart 401]

Hmn. Makes me feel old. I know that few coins nowadays are likely to have been owned by anyone well known. The sheer number of coins and sources of coins available to us today is astronomical compared with the collectors of even the 1960's- 1970's. And maybe such things haven't been part of collecting tradition for many years, but to me it feels as if part of the hobby is becoming lost in the past. There's a great feeling to receiving a coin with a ticket and seeing who owned or stocked that coin in the past.

I know it doesn't change the actual coin itself. But knowing that my coin has appeared in a catalogue, article or that a particular collector has owned it makes me feel differently about it somehow. Gives me a sense of .. history.

Bah. I'm obviously feeling nostalgic. Too many late nights! Sorry guys!

[Rob 3,152]

Hmn. Makes me feel old. I know that few coins nowadays are likely to have been owned by anyone well known. The sheer number of coins and sources of coins available to us today is astronomical compared with the collectors of even the 1960's- 1970's. And maybe such things haven't been part of collecting tradition for many years, but to me it feels as if part of the hobby is becoming lost in the past. There's a great feeling to receiving a coin with a ticket and seeing who owned or stocked that coin in the past.

I know it doesn't change the actual coin itself. But knowing that my coin has appeared in a catalogue, article or that a particular collector has owned it makes me feel differently about it somehow. Gives me a sense of .. history.

Bah. I'm obviously feeling nostalgic. Too many late nights! Sorry guys!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. I'm 100% behind you on this one. The info on past tickets can also be useful when tracing the provenance. Coupled with a good library you can establish a long history of ownership.

For the uninitiated, there was an article in the 2001 BNJ on the tickets of major hammered collectors, though nothing has been done for the milled series.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Hmn. Makes me feel old. I know that few coins nowadays are likely to have been owned by anyone well known. The sheer number of coins and sources of coins available to us today is astronomical compared with the collectors of even the 1960's- 1970's. And maybe such things haven't been part of collecting tradition for many years, but to me it feels as if part of the hobby is becoming lost in the past. There's a great feeling to receiving a coin with a ticket and seeing who owned or stocked that coin in the past.

I know it doesn't change the actual coin itself. But knowing that my coin has appeared in a catalogue, article or that a particular collector has owned it makes me feel differently about it somehow. Gives me a sense of .. history.

Bah. I'm obviously feeling nostalgic. Too many late nights! Sorry guys!

Ah, I get you now. I wasn't quite sure what you meant at first. I didn't think you could have meant the simple descriptions supplied by coin dealers with the coins they sell (eg: "1951 penny in EF, very rare", type of thing)

[Rob 3,152]

Hmn. Makes me feel old. I know that few coins nowadays are likely to have been owned by anyone well known. The sheer number of coins and sources of coins available to us today is astronomical compared with the collectors of even the 1960's- 1970's. And maybe such things haven't been part of collecting tradition for many years, but to me it feels as if part of the hobby is becoming lost in the past. There's a great feeling to receiving a coin with a ticket and seeing who owned or stocked that coin in the past.

I know it doesn't change the actual coin itself. But knowing that my coin has appeared in a catalogue, article or that a particular collector has owned it makes me feel differently about it somehow. Gives me a sense of .. history.

Bah. I'm obviously feeling nostalgic. Too many late nights! Sorry guys!

Ah, I get you now. I wasn't quite sure what you meant at first. I didn't think you could have meant the simple descriptions supplied by coin dealers with the coins they sell (eg: "1951 penny in EF, very rare", type of thing)

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Rob

[1949threepence 3,367]

Hmn. Makes me feel old. I know that few coins nowadays are likely to have been owned by anyone well known. The sheer number of coins and sources of coins available to us today is astronomical compared with the collectors of even the 1960's- 1970's. And maybe such things haven't been part of collecting tradition for many years, but to me it feels as if part of the hobby is becoming lost in the past. There's a great feeling to receiving a coin with a ticket and seeing who owned or stocked that coin in the past.

I know it doesn't change the actual coin itself. But knowing that my coin has appeared in a catalogue, article or that a particular collector has owned it makes me feel differently about it somehow. Gives me a sense of .. history.

Bah. I'm obviously feeling nostalgic. Too many late nights! Sorry guys!

Ah, I get you now. I wasn't quite sure what you meant at first. I didn't think you could have meant the simple descriptions supplied by coin dealers with the coins they sell (eg: "1951 penny in EF, very rare", type of thing)

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

Absolutely couldn't agree more, Rob. Looking at those glimpses into coin collecting history was totally fascinating. The addition of such a ticket with a coin purchase would be a major added bonus for me ~ the older the better.

I can see exactly where Tom is coming from on this subject.

[Red Riley 2]

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though.

[Colin G. 147]

I never used to see the fascination with these, but since owning a few, they are fascinating little insights into previous owners, and the route the coin has taken. I would definitely purchase more farthings with these if I could find them

[Rob 3,152]

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though.

I always write a ticket for a collection coin whether it is the Churchill crown or a unique coin. Details of the collection reference, ruler, denomination, weight, Spink/Peck/ESC reference number and any other important feature go on the front, purchase details and provenance on the back. Thankfully(?) I don't have too many two ticket provenances as I have difficulty fitting in more than 10 previous owners together with sale dates and lot numbers. I always pass on the ticket(s) if the coin gets sold.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Rob

[Peckris 579]

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though.

I always write a ticket for a collection coin whether it is the Churchill crown or a unique coin. Details of the collection reference, ruler, denomination, weight, Spink/Peck/ESC reference number and any other important feature go on the front, purchase details and provenance on the back. Thankfully(?) I don't have too many two ticket provenances as I have difficulty fitting in more than 10 previous owners together with sale dates and lot numbers. I always pass on the ticket(s) if the coin gets sold.

Hm, anyone interested in owning my FileMaker Pro record for a coin? It's all there - picture, date bought, where from, how much, condition, values in Spink each year since purchase, location, etc. One small problem, it is digital!

[Rob 3,152]

Here is a good idea of the type of things that you can get. The ludicrously large (~48mm dia.) ticket on the left is for the smallest hammered halfpenny ever produced and is with a ticket from the Marshall collection. The smaller round one is by R C Lockett and has details on the reverse referencing the source of the coin which was the Longbottom sale in 1934; whilst the third is a hand made ticket by H Webb whose collection was mostly sold in 1894-5, though a few pieces were retained by the family and eventually dispersed around WW2. This was one of the latter and was acquired by Lockett, but subsequently added to by the purchaser who noted the Lockett lot number on the reverse. Tracing the history of individual coins is fascinating.

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though.

I always write a ticket for a collection coin whether it is the Churchill crown or a unique coin. Details of the collection reference, ruler, denomination, weight, Spink/Peck/ESC reference number and any other important feature go on the front, purchase details and provenance on the back. Thankfully(?) I don't have too many two ticket provenances as I have difficulty fitting in more than 10 previous owners together with sale dates and lot numbers. I always pass on the ticket(s) if the coin gets sold.

Hm, anyone interested in owning my FileMaker Pro record for a coin? It's all there - picture, date bought, where from, how much, condition, values in Spink each year since purchase, location, etc. One small problem, it is digital!

You are correct about the problem. A coin ticket will fit into the wallet for the coin when it goes to auction. Your computer definitely wouldn't fit.

For anyone interested in modern coins only, the importance of tickets and the information given is only really relevant for rare proofs or patterns. When there are literally thousands of pieces available in top grade the provenance is immaterial, however, when the number of coins extant is in single figures or low double figures then the identification becomes somewhat easier. Tickets have a part to play in determining authenticity too as you would have to forge tickets in the handwriting of the owner whose coin a copy purports to be.

[declanwmagee 122]

ex-Onewebby doesn't quite have the same ring to it as ex-Norweb, does it?

[Rob 3,152]

ex-Onewebby doesn't quite have the same ring to it as ex-Norweb, does it?

Mrs N had one of the more interesting identifiers. She stored her coins in 2x2 envelopes with a spider's web on the flap. see attached pic for an example.

[Gary D 76]

For anyone interested in modern coins only, the importance of tickets and the information given is only really relevant for rare proofs or patterns. When there are literally thousands of pieces available in top grade the provenance is immaterial, however, when the number of coins extant is in single figures or low double figures then the identification becomes somewhat easier. Tickets have a part to play in determining authenticity too as you would have to forge tickets in the handwriting of the owner whose coin a copy purports to be.

I like the idea of tickets, the only one I have came with my 1960 VIP crown which simply says it came from Baldwins. I have often wondered about the provenance of my 1935 proof crown. I asked the auction house when I bought it but all they would say was that it came from a reputable source.

Gary