Hammered coin

[palves]

Hi.

A friend of mine offered me today this coin. He said he got it from an internet seller together with other coins and he has no interest in it. The seller told him it was a English medieval hammered coin... and this is as much as I know.

Any idea of what it is and its value?

Thanks in advance.

PA

[Peckris]

Hi.

A friend of mine offered me today this coin. He said he got it from an internet seller together with other coins and he has no interest in it. The seller told him it was a English medieval hammered coin... and this is as much as I know.

Any idea of what it is and its value?

Thanks in advance.

PA

It looks like a short cross penny, and it appears that the obverse may say HENRICVS (Henry), but that's as far as I can go on this. If no-one more knowledgeable jumps in, I can do some research in Spinks using your picture.

[HistoricCoinage]

It is indeed a shortcross penny.

The moneyer is Samuel and the mint is Canterbury.

From that photograph of the obverse and the significant level of wear, it is hard to determine a class. But it, at least, looks to be a penny of King John.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Kindest Regards,

Clive.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

The moneyer is Samuel and the mint is Canterbury.

Thinking aloud, Clive, on the assumption that banks hadn't been invented yet, do you know the actual mechanics of how coins entered circulation in this period ?

[Peckris]

The moneyer is Samuel and the mint is Canterbury.

Thinking aloud, Clive, on the assumption that banks hadn't been invented yet, do you know the actual mechanics of how coins entered circulation in this period ?

Interesting question! It had never occurred to me before, but now you ask ...

[£400 for a Penny ?]

I suppose, thinking about it, that it must have been a private enterprise. For example you are the moneyer, approved by the King of the day with a set of dies in various denominations. I have a large silver bowl left to me by my grandmother and I bring it to you, we agree on it's weight, say 5lbs of .925 I leave it with you and a week later come back to collect 5lb of coins minus your fee. I then use the coins in the course of my daily business and they enter circulation that way.

Can't see how it would work otherwise - if you already had 5lbs of coins made up, that would make you a bank.

Any other theories ?

[Peckris]

I suppose, thinking about it, that it must have been a private enterprise. For example you are the moneyer, approved by the King of the day with a set of dies in various denominations. I have a large silver bowl left to me by my grandmother and I bring it to you, we agree on it's weight, say 5lbs of .925 I leave it with you and a week later come back to collect 5lb of coins minus your fee. I then use the coins in the course of my daily business and they enter circulation that way.

Can't see how it would work otherwise - if you already had 5lbs of coins made up, that would make you a bank.

Any other theories ?

Interesting theory, but how does that explain the 'Tower Mint go slow' by the employees enraged at the idea that Mestrelle's 'milling machine' would put them out of work? And the fact that Henry VIII personally debased the silver of the realm, not his moneyers?

[£400 for a Penny ?]

It is interesting.

The bit I'm struggling with is the fact that we're talking about valuable metals and not a token coinage where quantitive easing is possible. The point there being that if there was a central issuing source, the King say, he's not going to just give it away is he, so how does it get into circulation.

Maybe the day to day business of being a King is sufficiently involved that his court/advisers spend enough to get coins into circulation that way ?

I suppose we aren't talking about massive mintages are we and also the vast majority of the country didn't use coins, they bartered.

I like the barter system, so much so in fact, that I am going to attempt to pay for my newspapers this morning with a chicken...

[argentumandcoins]

I suppose, thinking about it, that it must have been a private enterprise. For example you are the moneyer, approved by the King of the day with a set of dies in various denominations. I have a large silver bowl left to me by my grandmother and I bring it to you, we agree on it's weight, say 5lbs of .925 I leave it with you and a week later come back to collect 5lb of coins minus your fee. I then use the coins in the course of my daily business and they enter circulation that way.

Can't see how it would work otherwise - if you already had 5lbs of coins made up, that would make you a bank.

Any other theories ?

Interesting theory, but how does that explain the 'Tower Mint go slow' by the employees enraged at the idea that Mestrelle's 'milling machine' would put them out of work? And the fact that Henry VIII personally debased the silver of the realm, not his moneyers?

By the time of Henry VIII England was at the stage of having assay officers and Town mint marks/date letters on items of plate. The hallmarking system was introduced to ensure that all duties payable to the Crown were gathered. It is safe therefore to assume that at this point in time the Crown had absolute authority on all fiscal matters within the kingdom and would therefore control the coinage that entered circulation.