1866 Shiiling BBRITANNIAR?

[azda 979]

Maybe some of you gents have seen a BBRITANNIAR 1866 Shilling, so i was wondering if this could possibly be one, the 2nd R or B looks strange, the curve of the leg goes quite high and looks as though it's joined at the bottom like a B. I've only downloaded the gallery picture, cropped and enlarged etc for opinions, see what you think.

Just looking at the enlarged picture, the strike across the 1st leg at the bottom curves upwards

Any takers?

Edited November 14, 2010 by azda

[1949threepence 3,367]

I'm not sure as I've never actually seen one, nor can I find a pic. Yours looks like an "R" somehow gone wrong. Maybe that's what they look like, but I'd always imagined it to be a perfect "B" inserted into the die as a direct result of a spelling error.

Inconclusive from me. Hopefully someone else will have actually seen one.

[VickySilver 852]

Pretty rough looking R there but not sure if I could call it a "BB"

[azda 979]

Ok here's another picture, this time i've added 3 arrows. The top arrow pointing down is where the tip of the R ends. The arrow inside is where i was thinking it was a B, the serif is rounded going into the 2nd leg like a curve of a B. The 3rd horizontal arrow is just where the leg of the R is just completely wrong and fat, hence these things combined was where my conclusion came from.

The 2nd leg of the R looks as though it's been added later and was made an arse of.

[azda 979]

Here's the original gallery picture

[RobJ 0]

I'm not sure if this is the same coin or not Azda, if it is then I apologize in advance! If not, then hopefully it may prove useful for comparison for you.

It is from an auction from Bloomsbury's in London a couple of years ago with an estimate of £1700 - £1900 but it remained unsold.

I hope this helps.

bloomsburyauctions.com/fiximages/605/154727.jpg

[RobJ 0]

I'm not sure if this is the same coin or not Azda, if it is then I apologize in advance! If not, then hopefully it may prove useful for comparison for you.

It is from an auction from Bloomsbury's in London a couple of years ago with an estimate of £1700 - £1900 but it remained unsold.

I hope this helps.

bloomsburyauctions.com/fiximages/605/154727.jpg

[RobJ 0]

Oh dear! Not only did I double post - Oops! But I also gave the wrong link - Double Oops! lol

Sorry everyone.

Hopefully this link will work.

www.bloomsburyauctions.com/detail/605/717.0

[Rob 3,152]

Oh dear! Not only did I double post - Oops! But I also gave the wrong link - Double Oops! lol

Sorry everyone.

Hopefully this link will work.

www.bloomsburyauctions.com/detail/605/717.0

It isn't the same coin, or if it is it has been dipped and dropped. There are a few toning spots on the Bloomsbury piece and the rim bruise is not clear either. If Azda's coin is a BB, then it must be a very late striking as the R over B of BBITANNIAR and the last A both have associated flaws which are not present in the Bloomsbury picture.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Rob

[azda 979]

No, i found this One in switzerland. I've Went in for the kill and purchased it because it was so annoying me, plus it was'nt expensive, that R or B is killing me lol

[azda 979]

Can anyone post a pic of the bloomsbury one, am at work on the iphone and the Link doesn't work for me

[RobJ 0]

It isn't the same coin, or if it is it has been dipped and dropped. There are a few toning spots on the Bloomsbury piece and the rim bruise is not clear either.

It had crossed my mind that if it were the same same coin that it may have been dipped. However, I must admit that I hadn't noticed the bruising. Well spotted!

[RobJ 0]

Can anyone post a pic of the bloomsbury one, am at work on the iphone and the Link doesn't work for me

I'm not sure if you were able to see it on your IPhone Azda, but Rob attached the picture to the bottom of his post.

[azda 979]

Yup See it now, but Not great magnified, will just have to wait until it arrives and get it under the usb microscope me thinks, although from what i can See, bloomsburys looks different

[azda 979]

Ok, i did a little cropping and enlarging of the Bloomsbury coin and 2 things that seem to looks similar to the one i'm talking about here is the serif of the 1st leg seems to curve round the same and the 2nd leg, where the R finishes seems high, if you look at the picture i uploaded with the arrows, 2 parts of the Bloomsbury looks similar to this one..

We shall wait and see when it arrives............ . I hate waitin

[RobJ 0]

I have been pondering over the images this evening and I'm wondering if it could be a case of instead of it being a spelling error in the die as a possibility as suggested earlier by 1949, could it perhaps be a case of an overstrike of a B/R or R/B?

To me that would make much more sense as although it does look like an R, it doesn't look like a 'normal' R.

Or am I completely misunderstanding things here and that is what the error on the coin actually is? lol

Hopefully soon you will have that coin in your hand and you will be able to pop it under your microscope and perhaps solve this little mystery once and for all.

[azda 979]

I have been pondering over the images this evening and I'm wondering if it could be a case of instead of it being a spelling error in the die as a possibility as suggested earlier by 1949, could it perhaps be a case of an overstrike of a B/R or R/B?

To me that would make much more sense as although it does look like an R, it doesn't look like a 'normal' R.

Or am I completely misunderstanding things here and that is what the error on the coin actually is? lol

Hopefully soon you will have that coin in your hand and you will be able to pop it under your microscope and perhaps solve this little mystery once and for all.

Normally when an error occurs, the mint would overstrike the error with the correct letter. To me from what i'm seeing in both the coin i've now purchased and the Bloomsbury coin is that the serif of the 1st leg curves upwards and the curve of the 2nd legs both extend to high. I enlarged the Bloomsbury and hightlighted it a little for my own viewing purposes but the image still wasn't great.

At the minute i'm thinking it's about a 50/50 chance that it could be. Some overstrikes are very difficult to see unless you have a microscope, but when i spotted it yesterday it just didn't look right, pictures can also be very deceptive, so i guess we're just going to have to sit back and wait. I'm hoping it'll be here for the weekend though and we can have a browse together. Meanwhile, here's the Bloomsbury, crap picture, but try if you can and compare the 1st B, and the curve from the bottom of the B, also if you look at the centre of my 1866 and compare the 2 centre lines of the 1st B and the alleged B, to me they both look the same, then compare the Rs in the rest of the legend, they don't seem the same as that alleged R or B. Anyhow, i might be clutching at straws right now.

P.s, if it is B/R or R/B then its BB surely

Edited November 16, 2010 by azda

[RobJ 0]

It really is hard to be sure one way or another at the moment, as the quality of the pictures make it quite inconclusive. I can see what you are saying in relation to the comparison of the letters, but it really is just a case of waiting until it arrives.

And yes, if it is an overstrike of any kind then it must be a BB. Or would it technically be a Britanniar with R/B? And if so would that be a whole new variety? I just don't know! lol

I know that I for one am most interested in finding out as I do like a good mystery! lol

[azda 979]

Had an email from then dealer saying its been posted today, so a few days to wait :-)

[RobJ 0]

That's excellent news Azda!

[azda 979]

God i hate waiting

[azda 979]

Well apparently the coin has arrived..........while i'm at work, Sods law. Will Upload a microscoped picture later this evening

[RobJ 0]

That is excellent news! I'm certainly looking forward to seeing those pictures.

[azda 979]

Should Be up by 9pm ish. I'll start a New thread though so the more knowledgable of the members don't pass it by