2008 shied design 5p major error or not?

[chris 0]

hi everyone

as we know, back in 2008 the new shield designs came out. a few mess ups at the mint what with the 20p and such. ive came across a 5p coin that is upside reverse. now i remember someone saying that if a penny from this year could be found they would pay £1000 for an example like this with the upside reverse design

now theres no point in adding a photo as its a five pence coin.

is this a one off error or is there millions like this out there??????

[RobJ 0]

Hi Chris.

By upside reverse I take it that you mean that OBV and the REV don't match in the way that they should do?

If I'm honest I've not heard of such a coin. I know that when the new designs very first came out I collected a LOT of the different denomonations and sat down over a couple of evenings and had a close look at them. Perhaps I didn't have enough to find such a coin as I had to go through over 100 20p coins to find a 'Mule.' I had no idea that they exised at the time so I think that I was lucky to find one.

So your coin may in fact be unique. Or at least one of a very small number.

One thing that I did notice however, is that with the 10p coins on some of them I noticed that the position of the portrait had variations.

On the vast majority of coins when you hold the reverse design so that the part of the shield design above the lions was straight and spun the coin on the axis the portrait was aligned as it should be, but on some of the coins the portrait seemed to be tilted a little forward.

I didn't really have enough 10p coins to make a solid judgement on the percentages, but out of around 200 or so I noticed that difference on a few.

I simply put it down to the mass production of the coins as the Royal Mint has neither the time or resources to check each and every coin. lol

[chris 0]

Hi Chris.

By upside reverse I take it that you mean that OBV and the REV don't match in the way that they should do?

If I'm honest I've not heard of such a coin. I know that when the new designs very first came out I collected a LOT of the different denomonations and sat down over a couple of evenings and had a close look at them. Perhaps I didn't have enough to find such a coin as I had to go through over 100 20p coins to find a 'Mule.' I had no idea that they exised at the time so I think that I was lucky to find one.

So your coin may in fact be unique. Or at least one of a very small number.

One thing that I did notice however, is that with the 10p coins on some of them I noticed that the position of the portrait had variations.

On the vast majority of coins when you hold the reverse design so that the part of the shield design above the lions was straight and spun the coin on the axis the portrait was aligned as it should be, but on some of the coins the portrait seemed to be tilted a little forward.

I didn't really have enough 10p coins to make a solid judgement on the percentages, but out of around 200 or so I noticed that difference on a few.

I simply put it down to the mass production of the coins as the Royal Mint has neither the time or resources to check each and every coin. lol

thanks rob

as such i have had a few 20p coins that were 5 degrees off, multiples of cud errors but this is a whole 180 degrees off where it should be an il be honest ive never seen

a five pence that is even more than a degree off really. its only that i check the change i get, since buying Mr Perkins book, i check the lot!!!!!

[RobJ 0]

It certainly is interesting!

I would keep hold of it if I were you Chris, as more may yet be found as perhaps people simply notice them at first as in the case of the 20p 'Mule.'

It's funny that you should mention 'Check Your Change' as I purchased a copy of that book today. It really is a most fascinating read. I have found two 'Dot to Dot' 10p's in my change today after reading it. lol

[chris 0]

It certainly is interesting!

I would keep hold of it if I were you Chris, as more may yet be found as perhaps people simply notice them at first as in the case of the 20p 'Mule.'

It's funny that you should mention 'Check Your Change' as I purchased a copy of that book today. It really is a most fascinating read. I have found two 'Dot to Dot' 10p's in my change today after reading it. lol

yeah got three over the years not an easy one to find. also there were two types of 20p in 92 with different size heads, the smaller head being the rarest. well as mintage figues go they aint a common coin to come by. they dont have much value at the moment but who knows, one day they will.

[RobJ 0]

I'm really not sure if those coins would appreciate to be honest.

Then again I would imagine that people living in The Victorian or Edwardian eras didn't pay too much attention to the coins in their pockets as they were used each and every day, and what was at the time common today fetches a high premium due to it's rarity!

So who knows in the future!

[DaveG38 405]

I'm really not sure if those coins would appreciate to be honest.

Then again I would imagine that people living in The Victorian or Edwardian eras didn't pay too much attention to the coins in their pockets as they were used each and every day, and what was at the time common today fetches a high premium due to it's rarity!

So who knows in the future!

I'll buy one of the dot to dot 10ps off you, at a sensible price. How much do you want? I've been looking casually for years and never found one.

[RobJ 0]

I'll buy one of the dot to dot 10ps off you, at a sensible price. How much do you want? I've been looking casually for years and never found one.

I'm really sorry Dave but I have just given my spare one away. I've just spent the afternoon at a friend of my better half and her father is also a coin collector. He also had been searching for one for some time too so I gave it to him.

Again I'm really sorry, if I had seen this post sooner you would have been more than welcome to it.

I do however have a spare 'Between - Between' if it is of any use to you?

Edited November 21, 2010 by RobJ

[chris 0]

some photos now added

[RobJ 0]

That is an excellent find Chris, well done!

I do think that it is definitely worth holding on to. It may be similar to the 20p 'Mule' in the respect that there may have been a very short run of them that left the Mint like that and I think that once people realise they will start to look more closely and more may surface.

So now I'm on the lookout for one of those as well as the 'Dot to Dot' 10p's and the 20p 'Mule's.' lol

[numishoro 0]

What do you mean by a dot to dot 10p? I'm a bus driver and get to handle over a grand of change a week.I have ahd and sold 11 undated 20p.I also have 8 of the Welsh leek £1 coin with the apostrophe missing from I'm( I have a letter from Joseph Payne at the Royal Mint confirming the error).I also have 6 of the 2005 "Pemember Pemember £2 coins.And I have 3 Welsh lion £1 coins with the wrong edge inscription, "Decus et tutanem".i have around 40 error coins dating from the early 1880's to the present.I'll definately be looking out for the upside down reverse 5p from 2008.

[AardHawk 73]

What do you mean by a dot to dot 10p?

This thread explains the various varieties of small 10p. http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4566&st=0&p=35535&hl=aardhawk&fromsearch=1entry35535

[Sylvester 15]

Here's a link to the full listings for the current 10p varieties, a list I supplied to Tony Clayton some time ago.

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/dec10.html

The 2006 type A is actually rarer that 1/200, I've since searched at least another 100 10p coins over the last year in change and i've still not found another, so you're looking at 1/300 and going. Which in my book makes it rarer than the 'dot to dot' 10p.

Currently I have found 9 'dot to dot' 1992s which is about 1 per year on average, i found my quota for this year last week. Got an EF one slabbed by CGS UK. I've got 8 others, but quite a few have spots of verdigris i'm afraid.

I haven't been finding any 'between/between' 10ps of late. The joys of living in a house with a leaking roof for the past year (now fixed), but it's wiped out most of my base metal holdings. Another reason for me to stick with silver and gold, never had a problem with them going green on me.

I actually think that an overlooked rarity (at least in higher grades) is the at/between 1992. Find one in EF if you can!

[DaveG38 405]

Here's a link to the full listings for the current 10p varieties, a list I supplied to Tony Clayton some time ago.

http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/dec10.html

The 2006 type A is actually rarer that 1/200, I've since searched at least another 100 10p coins over the last year in change and i've still not found another, so you're looking at 1/300 and going. Which in my book makes it rarer than the 'dot to dot' 10p.

Currently I have found 9 'dot to dot' 1992s which is about 1 per year on average, i found my quota for this year last week. Got an EF one slabbed by CGS UK. I've got 8 others, but quite a few have spots of verdigris i'm afraid.

I haven't been finding any 'between/between' 10ps of late. The joys of living in a house with a leaking roof for the past year (now fixed), but it's wiped out most of my base metal holdings. Another reason for me to stick with silver and gold, never had a problem with them going green on me.

I actually think that an overlooked rarity (at least in higher grades) is the at/between 1992. Find one in EF if you can!

I've just pulled an at/between out of my pocket, but EF it ain't!!

[Sylvester 15]

I've just pulled an at/between out of my pocket, but EF it ain't!!

No and I don't think you'll find one either, I don't think they exist.*

From what I remember myself about these arriving in 1992/3. The first that arrived were the wire edge type, I remember putting these to one side, sometime in very late 1992, early 1993 I remember noticing different edge types, so the flat edge ones must have arrived around this time and I put a few of those aside. Both types were undoubtely the between/at type. Later in 1993 the at/betweens arrived (all dated 1992), but who would have put these aside, as the die differences were unknown at the time, I know I didn't! Worse still I later spent all of the other 1992s I'd cherry picked, most were ditched by around 1993 / 1994 I guess, after the novelty had worn off. So I had to buy coins of this type from Chris last year!

*Ignore this, I'll leave the above paragraphn because it might come useful for ordering which came first. Looking at the 1992 BU set on ebay, the 10p reverse there shows that it's a 'between' reverse, therefore, I'm presuming the obverse is an 'at'. Although i'd be really funny if the 1992 set contained 'between/between' coins! lol [it shouldn't!]

[scott 144]

i have yet to find the 2006 10p rare type

have at least 2 of every other 10p type though, and almost 50/50 split in 1992 small/large heads

i think there are 2 types of the new design 20p, the TWENTRY was nearer to the edge on some (not by much but noticable if you look for it) one came out before the other as well, so pehaps differant dye

[Sylvester 15]

i think there are 2 types of the new design 20p, the TWENTRY was nearer to the edge on some (not by much but noticable if you look for it) one came out before the other as well, so pehaps differant dye

I've just looked through a pile of them, appears to be a very slight difference but it is noticeable on all dates.

One type has the first 'T' touching the outer edge of the coin, the other has it away from the edge.

I'm not so sure if this is an actual die difference though or merely a rotation difference on each blank. Being the shape the coins are any fraction of a mm off to the left or right when the die strikes will affect how the legend is percieved and how close to the edge it is.

What makes me think this more than anything is of all the 2008s I've just looked through with the 'T' touching or within a fraction of touching the edge of the coin, on each on it is a different part of the 'T' that is nearest the edge. Some it's the top of the left corner of the T, others it's the left hand side of that corner, Some are exactly on the corner, some are further along the top of the crossbar going towards the middle of the letter. This makes me think it is a rotation difference rather than a die difference. Although I may be wrong!

[RobJ 0]

What do you mean by a dot to dot 10p? I'm a bus driver and get to handle over a grand of change a week.I have ahd and sold 11 undated 20p.I also have 8 of the Welsh leek £1 coin with the apostrophe missing from I'm( I have a letter from Joseph Payne at the Royal Mint confirming the error).I also have 6 of the 2005 "Pemember Pemember £2 coins.And I have 3 Welsh lion £1 coins with the wrong edge inscription, "Decus et tutanem".i have around 40 error coins dating from the early 1880's to the present.I'll definately be looking out for the upside down reverse 5p from 2008.

I had no idea about the Welsh Leek £1 coin with an apostrophe missing from the I'm Numishoro.

Does that affect the 1985 or the 1990 Issues or does it affect both of them?

[Peckris 579]

What do you mean by a dot to dot 10p?

This thread explains the various varieties of small 10p. http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4566&st=0&p=35535&hl=aardhawk&fromsearch=1entry35535

It's all a bit of a mountain out of a molehill - especially when you look at all the extremely scarce and rare large 10p varieties that don't make a ripple anywhere these days.

[Sylvester 15]

It's all a bit of a mountain out of a molehill - especially when you look at all the extremely scarce and rare large 10p varieties that don't make a ripple anywhere these days.

Is that so surprising?

The redeeming feature that makes the small 10p more interesting is simple, you can get them from change. Whereas the old 10p you're going to actually have to go out and buy them. Since no one actually deals with decimals really on such a die variety basis (certainly no where near the extent as predecimal copper/bronze) it means you have to buy bulk loads of the things off of places like Ebay! The problem here is the vast majority of what you buy will be the commoner types that you won't need, so then you've got to try and get rid of them afterwards. Who is going to want to spend loads and loads of money on decimal coins anyhow?

Maybe this will change, but whilst ever the coin collecting community is dominated by generations who have fond memories of the predecimal era (or like myself were born after decimalisation but were brought into the hobby and informed/educated about what to collect by someone who grew up with predecimal) then i'm afriad to say decimal coins will never be appreciated. Only two things will get decimal coins into the foreground, one reaching 2071 when there's no one left who really remembers using predecimal coins or switching to the euro.

The beauty of the small 10ps therefore is simply, the wheat costs you very little out put, just 10p here and 10p there and there's a constant supply without having to buy a single thing and you can just spend the chaff.

[AardHawk 73]

The beauty of the small 10ps therefore is simply, the wheat costs you very little out put, just 10p here and 10p there and there's a constant supply without having to buy a single thing and you can just spend the chaff.

I couldn't agree with you more. For me the purest form of coin collecting is sifting through one's change looking for elusive varieties.

I known others have absolutely no interest in varieties, but it is worth noting that every working die produced has its own unique fingerprint, so an understanding of these differences would go a long way to combating forgeries and verifying the authenticity of coins in one's collection.

[Sylvester 15]

I couldn't agree with you more. For me the purest form of coin collecting is sifting through one's change looking for elusive varieties.

Exactly, the thrill of the chase.

I known others have absolutely no interest in varieties, but it is worth noting that every working die produced has its own unique fingerprint, so an understanding of these differences would go a long way to combating forgeries and verifying the authenticity of coins in one's collection.

Agreed.

[RobJ 0]

Maybe this will change, but whilst ever the coin collecting community is dominated by generations who have fond memories of the predecimal era (or like myself were born after decimalisation but were brought into the hobby and informed/educated about what to collect by someone who grew up with predecimal) then i'm afriad to say decimal coins will never be appreciated.

I couldn't agree with you more. For me the purest form of coin collecting is sifting through one's change looking for elusive varieties.

To me, there is little difference, when it comes down to it, in say a 'Dot to Dot' 10p and some Pre Decimal coins. After all, they are essentially the same coins, except certain letters or numbers point to certain places that the others do not.

To me personally that is what Coin Collecting has always been about. Looking through and checking your change to find the varieties and nice examples of coins that we use daily.

After all, if people of previous generations didn't put aside or collect coins from their time, then we simply would not have the variety or qualilty of coins that we as Coin Collecters today have.

For example, the much coveted 1905 Shilling. Yes, they were produced in much smaller numbers than their contemporary coins, however, to the average Edwardian the 1905 Shilling would have not been any different to any other Shilling of the day, yet if they had not been put aside for whatever reason or collected at the time, there would be even fewer of them today and virtually none in higher Grades.

I believe that I made that point earlier in the thread that people living in The Victorian or Edwardian eras didn't pay too much attention to the coins in their pockets as they were used each and every day, and what was at the time common today fetches a high premium due to it's rarity, and it may be in the future that the same could be said of some Decimal Coins.

One of the main differences that I can see is that of sheer numbers, that is to say that coins today are produced, as a whole, on a vastly larger scale than Pre Decimal Coins. Today they are produced in the Hundreds of Millions as opposed to Millions and Tens of Millions for the later Pre Decimal Coins.

There are however certain Decimal Coins that do have low Mintages, certain 50p, £1 and £2 Coins for example, and the certain varieties of other coins that do exist. In all probability, it will be those which are sought after by future generations of Coin Collectors, but if we do not put them aside now or collect them, there will be very few of them for those future generations to collect!

Sorry to ramble on. lol

I just thought that I would add my thoughts on the subject.

[Mrs natalie harris 0]

On 19 November 2010 at 1:04 PM, chris said:

hi everyone

as we know, back in 2008 the new shield designs came out. a few mess ups at the mint what with the 20p and such. ive came across a 5p coin that is upside reverse. now i remember someone saying that if a penny from this year could be found they would pay £1000 for an example like this with the upside reverse design

now theres no point in adding a photo as its a five pence coin.

is this a one off error or is there millions like this out there??????

Hi there, i too have one of these rare 5p's. Having previously worked for pobjoy mint i recognised that this coin was in fact on an american axis not an english. I have had this coin since about 2008/2009 and i actually sent it off to the royal mint for verification. So i have a letter of authenticity. 

If anyone reading this is interested, i am in fact looking for a buyer.  Email me nataliestaden@yahoo.co.uk

 

if anyone has any questions or would like pictures of the coin and letter i would be happy to oblige. 

 

Many thanks

natalie

Edited August 6, 2016 by Mrs natalie harris

[Peter 615]

Probably the wrong forum Natalie. I would suggest ebay BIN with a good description and photo. The collectors of such coins are rarer than the coins themselves.