Better photos of two Sovereigns

[davevt 0]

Hi, New guy again with better photos.

Thanks for the opinions that were relevant.

Getting the light to shine evenly on both coins is not easy.

The following is my opinion. Please let me know if I am misinterpreting the signs.

I think a worn Sovereign was used to produce many identical counterfeit copies. Existing

scratches on the worn Sovereign will appear on all copies. Handling of the copies then

added some new surfaces marks making them look common circulated coins. Check these marks,

Two marks to right of sword tip.

Mark between sword and tail.

Mark on top of riders thigh.

Mark on horses belly above Dragon wing tip.

No marks on Dragon or in field or edge.

These two coins were bought from same seller who has more.

Separately the coins look great but together they look fake.

Weight is correct.

Size is correct.

I therefore believe they are 22k gold counterfeits of Sovereigns.

Passing a test with a Victorian Sovereign scale or a Ficsh does not mean you have a genuine

Sovereign, only something the correct size and weight and likely 22k gold.

Dave

[Accumulator 52]

Seeing larger pics. suggests you are most likely correct in your evaluation of the two coins. However, I am curious why anyone would go to the trouble of copying a poor quality 22k coin worth no more than bullion value using 22k gold bullion? The process costs involved would almost certainly generate a financial loss to the forger.

The only two explanations that make sense to me are laundering or CGT avoidance. Laundering would be the means where unlawfully obtained gold bullion which might be difficult to trade is swapped into easily tradeable gold coinage. CGT avoidance arises because the private sale of gold bullion in the UK is subject to capital gains tax (CGT) whereas the sale of sovereigns is not.

[davevt 0]

Seeing larger pics. suggests you are most likely correct in your evaluation of the two coins. However, I am curious why anyone would go to the trouble of copying a poor quality 22k coin worth no more than bullion value using 22k gold bullion? The process costs involved would almost certainly generate a financial loss to the forger.

The only two explanations that make sense to me are laundering or CGT avoidance. Laundering would be the means where unlawfully obtained gold bullion which might be difficult to trade is swapped into easily tradeable gold coinage. CGT avoidance arises because the private sale of gold bullion in the UK is subject to capital gains tax (CGT) whereas the sale of sovereigns is not.

Hi,

I agree, poor quality 22k coin = financial loss to the forger.

The fact that where is no logic to it would lull people into thinking it would not be done.

However this was done in the 1950s when a 22k fake Sovereign could be sold for 3 or 4 times the gold value.

Here an old a quote from another forum.

Posted by PandAu

The part that really interested me was the fact that in 1952 the £1 sovereign was worth £2-18-0 in gold content yet sold on continental markets from between £4 and £10. (Which gave the reason for forgery) However, why did they comand such a high premium.

The only reason I can think is that the people did not trust the paper money that was being thrust on everyone.

BUT, the difference was probably (also) about the quoted price of gold compared with the true price of gold.

Just like today, gold going up in price reflects the devaluation of the paper money............ The paper price of gold is held down.

I told the seller the coins were gold but counterfeit.He said no as major coin dealer in town had offered him just below spot for them.He also told me he brought a few with him from Dubai where the shop had 100 of them all the same.I told him I had not stopped laughing.

Think about it, 100 1918 Sydney Sovereigns for sale. Now that is a collection.

Dave