1887 golden jubilee - replica 1970?!

[Guest polarelec]

Good morning from France

Someone received a coin as a gift years ago and because I'm a brit, perhaps I know what it is . . . ?

Well, it's 28mm diameter and with the faces precisely the same as

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/1887goldsets.html

yet the date is 1970

I can't weigh it yet, and having handled a few canadian maples and south african gold coins one afternoon, I reckon this coin is copper nickel, if it's a coin at all.

Websites assure us that nothing were minted in 1970 in commemoration nor any other reason in that configuration and one website suggests the Royal mint weren't likely to answer and, anyway enquiries about such a coin were impossible because nothing was made that year "The only dates minted during this period were 1957 to 1959, 1962 to 1968, then 1974, 1976, and 1978 to date, although some of these are available as proofs only."

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/1970sovereign.html

So, what do I have before me? A fake, a proof, junk, a tourist attraction gift, an enigma? It's a lot of effort for anyone to construct dies to reproduce such a thingy.

Thankyou

Matthew

[azda 979]

Good morning from France

Someone received a coin as a gift years ago and because I'm a brit, perhaps I know what it is . . . ?

Well, it's 28mm diameter and with the faces precisely the same as

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/1887goldsets.html

yet the date is 1970

I can't weigh it yet, and having handled a few canadian maples and south african gold coins one afternoon, I reckon this coin is copper nickel, if it's a coin at all.

Websites assure us that nothing were minted in 1970 in commemoration nor any other reason in that configuration and one website suggests the Royal mint weren't likely to answer and, anyway enquiries about such a coin were impossible because nothing was made that year "The only dates minted during this period were 1957 to 1959, 1962 to 1968, then 1974, 1976, and 1978 to date, although some of these are available as proofs only."

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/1970sovereign.html

So, what do I have before me? A fake, a proof, junk, a tourist attraction gift, an enigma? It's a lot of effort for anyone to construct dies to reproduce such a thingy.

Thankyou

Matthew

A photo and what denomination etc, you have linked to taxfreegold, so is it a Sovereign, yet you state its copper nickel, so quite confusing what you are even talking about right now.

[Guest polarelec]

Good morning Azda and viewers, from France

I've borrowed a camera with macro to add the image. The colours are in sunshine and very close to the actual coin colours.

I hope you find it interesting or possible to check or compare.

regards

Polarelec

[Red Riley 2]

Good morning Azda and viewers, from France

I've borrowed a camera with macro to add the image. The colours are in sunshine and very close to the actual coin colours.

I hope you find it interesting or possible to check or compare.

regards

Polarelec

How strange. Not genuine though and I guess pretty unlikely that it's gold. Looking at the patina, it looks like the same alloy as pound coins. Fascinating why somebody would go to that much bother. Given the date, unlikely that anybody would take it as a genuine sovereign. Curious.

[Guest polarelec]

Good morning Azda and viewers, from France

I've borrowed a camera with macro to add the image. The colours are in sunshine and very close to the actual coin colours.

I hope you find it interesting or possible to check or compare.

regards

Polarelec

How strange. Not genuine though and I guess pretty unlikely that it's gold. Looking at the patina, it looks like the same alloy as pound coins. Fascinating why somebody would go to that much bother. Given the date, unlikely that anybody would take it as a genuine sovereign. Curious.

I've found a link that explains counterfeiting in the Middle East, including Beirut 1970 were to continue circulation of the sovereign because it were sought after and used in commerce, whether British mints produced or not, never mind if Great Britain used it or not and any date would do. Apparently locals knew which was which, including the gold content 40 to 92 percent, so very variable and therefore used for smaller or larger transactions. So, where someone is looking for an object with a nominal appreciation of which other commodities can be exchanged it seems they conclude it truly doesn't matter as long as the matter is agreed. Well, that seems to me to be a question of attitude rather than legality - presuming the locals were all apt at recognition or happier with that rather than standard currencies. Sort of, up to them. Soooooooh, I reckon for the moment that the french lady has received a souvenir of someone who travelled and thought it amusing. One can call it counterfeiting or nostalgia for the bad old days of Empire when the brits paid up, just like that. Well, that's my interpretation. Here's a more thorough description.

http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/newsletter2.html

[Peckris 579]

Good morning Azda and viewers, from France

I've borrowed a camera with macro to add the image. The colours are in sunshine and very close to the actual coin colours.

I hope you find it interesting or possible to check or compare.

regards

Polarelec

How strange. Not genuine though and I guess pretty unlikely that it's gold. Looking at the patina, it looks like the same alloy as pound coins. Fascinating why somebody would go to that much bother. Given the date, unlikely that anybody would take it as a genuine sovereign. Curious.

I've found a link that explains counterfeiting in the Middle East, including Beirut 1970 were to continue circulation of the sovereign because it were sought after and used in commerce, whether British mints produced or not, never mind if Great Britain used it or not and any date would do. Apparently locals knew which was which, including the gold content 40 to 92 percent, so very variable and therefore used for smaller or larger transactions. So, where someone is looking for an object with a nominal appreciation of which other commodities can be exchanged it seems they conclude it truly doesn't matter as long as the matter is agreed. Well, that seems to me to be a question of attitude rather than legality - presuming the locals were all apt at recognition or happier with that rather than standard currencies. Sort of, up to them. Soooooooh, I reckon for the moment that the french lady has received a souvenir of someone who travelled and thought it amusing. One can call it counterfeiting or nostalgia for the bad old days of Empire when the brits paid up, just like that. Well, that's my interpretation. Here's a more thorough description.

http://www.coinauthentication.co.uk/newsletter2.html

That rings true. I do know the Maria Teresa Taler (still dated as per the original issue!) was still being produced and circulating in Arab countries well into the 20th Century, as it was a known, tried and tested piece - everyone knew what they were getting. So the gold 1887-style sounds similar.