English Shillings 1953 - 1970

[Kronos 0]

Whilst cataloguing my silver coins I have noticed in 'English Silver Coinage since 1649' that the book describes the English shilling as 'Crowned shield bearing the three Leopards of England'.

Is this an error as I have always thought it to be the three Lions, or have I got it wrong.

[Rob 3,152]

Whilst cataloguing my silver coins I have noticed in 'English Silver Coinage since 1649' that the book describes the English shilling as 'Crowned shield bearing the three Leopards of England'.

Is this an error as I have always thought it to be the three Lions, or have I got it wrong.

You've got it wrong (as does most of the country)

[Peckris 579]

Whilst cataloguing my silver coins I have noticed in 'English Silver Coinage since 1649' that the book describes the English shilling as 'Crowned shield bearing the three Leopards of England'.

Is this an error as I have always thought it to be the three Lions, or have I got it wrong.

You've got it wrong (as does most of the country)

I'm so glad someone else defends the 'leopard' truth Methinks no-one in England will ever get it right now, after that "Three Lions On My Shirt" nonsense, grrrr. They are three leopards en passant heradically speaking, as opposed to the Scottish Lion rampant (or is it guardant? Does anyone care?)

Mind you, if I met a hungry big cat, I wouldn't stop too long to check out if it was a leopard or a lion

[davidrj 194]

Whilst cataloguing my silver coins I have noticed in 'English Silver Coinage since 1649' that the book describes the English shilling as 'Crowned shield bearing the three Leopards of England'.

Is this an error as I have always thought it to be the three Lions, or have I got it wrong.

You've got it wrong (as does most of the country)

I'm so glad someone else defends the 'leopard' truth Methinks no-one in England will ever get it right now, after that "Three Lions On My Shirt" nonsense, grrrr. They are three leopards en passant heradically speaking, as opposed to the Scottish Lion rampant (or is it guardant? Does anyone care?)

Mind you, if I met a hungry big cat, I wouldn't stop too long to check out if it was a leopard or a lion

Heraldic English is arcane, seems lions and leopards are interchangeable lions/leopards

[RobJ 0]

As far as I can remember from my A-Level History studies - Please take in to account that it was quite a few years ago that I studied my A-Levels so my memory is rather hazy lol - The 'Three Lions' of England have their origins in the Norman Era and French Heraldry.

Henry I , who as Duke of Normandy, had a Coat of Arms which beared two Lions. When his grandson Henry II became King of England and Duke of Normandy he continued to use his Grandfathers Coat of Arms. Henry II married Eleanor of Aquitaine - Whos Coat of Arms beared one Lion - and they together produced a son, Richard the Lionheart.

When Richard became King of England, he merged the two Coat of Arms of his parents to create the 'Three Lions' as his own personal Coat of Arms.

This is where I remember that it became quite tricky as the use of Heraldic Symbolism came in to play heavily.

Henry's Lions were depicted as 'Rampant' (Upright Stance) However, Richard's Lions were depicted as 'Passant' (Laying Facing).

Now for the tricky bit, lol

In both English and French Heraldry the Lions 'Rampant' were simply known as a 'Lion' but in French Heraldry and therefore in the French language the Lions 'Passant' were known as 'Léopards.'

So there has been much confusion and debate to which is correct ever since. However technically speaking they are infact Léopards as their origins lay with the French Heraldic tradition.

As I said my memory is a rather hazy on this subject, so I apologize in advance for any misinformation or inaccuracies, but those as far as I remember are the basic origins.

I hope that helps.

[Kronos 0]

Well, from my memory of history lessons at school (which were a long time ago) I had never heard of Leopards mentioned in our Royal Arms flag, it was a bog standard comprehensive school I might add. Who said that collecting coins was a hobby of Kings (I wonder if the Kings new the answer to my question).

I apologise to P. Alan Rayner and how dare I question such a noble book of English silver coinage.

Seriously though it was a genuine question and my eyes have been opened yet again. Thank you all.

No mention of it here either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Arms_of_England

[Peter 615]

Ahhhh a mongrol race..just like my feral cat who never needs to go to the vet unlike my Springer.

Luckily my wife is half Irish and my daughters have wet nose's and never ill...apart from asking them to clean their rooms.

[RobJ 0]

Seriously though it was a genuine question and my eyes have been opened yet again. Thank you all.

You are very welcome Kronos.

I hope that it helped you and that you didn't doze off to sleep as many times whilst reading my response as I did when doing my A-Level History! lol

[RobJ 0]

Heraldic English is arcane, seems lions and leopards are interchangeable lions/leopards

I completely agree with you David. To me it is not only arcane but severely headache enducing! lol

One of the things that I found most confusing with Heraldry is that I was taught that although it is termed a 'Léopard' the species of the animal isn't actually a Leopard at all! I was taught that the species was in fact a Lion.

However, due to Heraldic imagary and tradition it is a 'Léopard.' That is not to say that what I was taught was correct, or even fact for that matter.

The way that I always understood it personally was that the animal depicted was a Lion but was called a 'Léopard' due to the French Heraldic influences on our history. So both the terms of 'Three Lions' and 'Three Léopards' are neither correct nor incorrect.

Again, I could very well be wrong. lol

One thing is though, I find it all incredibly fascinating. lol

[Peckris 579]

The way the England team is going, it should be 'Three Lepers On My Shirt'

[Kronos 0]

The way the England team is going, it should be 'Three Lepers On My Shirt'

Are you saying our National team is falling to bits.

[Peckris 579]

The way the England team is going, it should be 'Three Lepers On My Shirt'

Are you saying our National team is falling to bits.

Nah, that happened a long time ago - under Don Revie as I remember Been downhill all the way since then!

[Red Riley 2]

Nah, that happened a long time ago - under Don Revie as I remember Been downhill all the way since then!

It was fairly dreadful at the very end of Alf Ramsey's regime. Failure to beat Poland and qualify for the 1974 World Cup was pretty grim.

Going completely off subject, if you remember that superb goal scored by Bobby Charlton against Mexico in the 1966 World Cup, just cast your eyes up behind the goal he scored it in and you will see a small 11 year old boy picking his nose. That's me!

Anyway, returning to subject, mediaeval Europe was not noted for its learning on anything other than ecclesiastical matters and the heraldic leopard/lion was probably just based on a folk memory of a big cat as almost nobody had ever seen one - especially a leopard. Wouldn't the 'leo' of 'leopard' indicate something to do with a lion anyway?

[Peckris 579]

Nah, that happened a long time ago - under Don Revie as I remember Been downhill all the way since then!

It was fairly dreadful at the very end of Alf Ramsey's regime. Failure to beat Poland and qualify for the 1974 World Cup was pretty grim.

Going completely off subject, if you remember that superb goal scored by Bobby Charlton against Mexico in the 1966 World Cup, just cast your eyes up behind the goal he scored it in and you will see a small 11 year old boy picking his nose. That's me!

Anyway, returning to subject, mediaeval Europe was not noted for its learning on anything other than ecclesiastical matters and the heraldic leopard/lion was probably just based on a folk memory of a big cat as almost nobody had ever seen one - especially a leopard. Wouldn't the 'leo' of 'leopard' indicate something to do with a lion anyway?

Aye, but I am prepared to bet that the team that failed to score past "that clown, Tomasewski" (assessment of Polish goalkeeper by one B.Clough) would spank the pants off our present overpaid bunch of primadonnas. Just my opinion of course

I will search for that goal on YouTube!

There's one small fly in the ointment of that theory - the name "leopard" is not simply heraldic, it's the name of that particular beast! But yes - quite certainly named from Latin "leo" = lion. "Pard" being short for "pardner", i.e. from a similar stable as the lion (brought to you © Bullshit Publications).

[Red Riley 2]

There's one small fly in the ointment of that theory - the name "leopard" is not simply heraldic, it's the name of that particular beast! But yes - quite certainly named from Latin "leo" = lion. "Pard" being short for "pardner", i.e. from a similar stable as the lion (brought to you © Bullshit Publications).

Now where's my trombone got to?

[Peter 615]

Nah, that happened a long time ago - under Don Revie as I remember Been downhill all the way since then!

It was fairly dreadful at the very end of Alf Ramsey's regime. Failure to beat Poland and qualify for the 1974 World Cup was pretty grim.

Going completely off subject, if you remember that superb goal scored by Bobby Charlton against Mexico in the 1966 World Cup, just cast your eyes up behind the goal he scored it in and you will see a small 11 year old boy picking his nose. That's me!

Anyway, returning to subject, mediaeval Europe was not noted for its learning on anything other than ecclesiastical matters and the heraldic leopard/lion was probably just based on a folk memory of a big cat as almost nobody had ever seen one - especially a leopard. Wouldn't the 'leo' of 'leopard' indicate something to do with a lion anyway?

We were in Lowestoft in a grotty B&B...Dad went potty mum tutted and I watched a big yellow helicopter...sounds like a LSD trip.