A salutary lesson for newcomers ..

[TomGoodheart 400]

The next time any of you newcomers to the hobby might be tempted to pick up a 'rare' medallion or coin, may I suggest checking out ebay first?

I'm pretty sure that all those people who bought coins and medallions celebrating the Investiture of Prince Charles or, more commonly, the Charles & Di wedding though they were on to a good thing. But if you take a quick glance at eBay you will find that there are thousands of the things. Mostly unsold.

Same with the 'rare' Charles Darwin £2 coin. The only reason they are bloody rare is because practically every single example is on eBay! Why oh why would you pay £3.99 for a £2 coin? And more interesting .. why would someone imagine that somebody else would pay that?? Instead of buying one, just give a quid to charity. You'll still be better off financially and will have a sense of having done a good deed!

So remember kiddies. Rare describes something that you aren't going to see every day. Something for which there are normally more buyers than available examples. It doesn't matter what someone else says, if you've never seen a coin before (or have never seen as good an example) there's a chance it's rare. Of course, it's not a guarantee. Some things just aren't all that desirable even though they rarely come up for sale. Limited Edition 'coins' for example, which are usually just worth bullion. And some things are not at all rare (like Charles I Newark siege coins) but there will always be a market for them. That's where the homework comes pays off.

Rant over. And all you Grandmothers out there? Well, now you know how to suck eggs!

[scott 144]

agreed, people buying those stupid £2 coins are denying people of finding one

that and the mint will have to mint a stupid number in 2011 to cover the lack of £2 in curculation

[Peter 615]

I would love a Newark shilling...but a load of other coins before....if one comes along at the right price I might be tempted William 3rd farthings have been a challenge....I'm still not happy...the 1695 is a pain...I paid a lot of money in the USA for this although I still managed to sneek a 1698 exurge for $10 and date in legend for $135....described as EF and as Mr Cooke overgraded his Williams I kept it....I always go for eye appeal on early copper...it floats my boat.

I'm still looking for a good 1679...mine although GF has a bit of green....always on the look out

[1949threepence 3,367]

I agree with you Tom, but I'm still eagerly awaiting the mintage for business strike Charles Darwin £2 coins.

I actually got one in my change, as I have 3 of the 4 2002 Commonwealth Games £2.00 coins.

[azda 979]

I agree with you Tom, but I'm still eagerly awaiting the mintage for business strike Charles Darwin £2 coins.

I actually got one in my change, as I have 3 of the 4 2002 Commonwealth Games £2.00 coins.

Get them on Ebay 1949, there's always a mug out there. You ok Tom? Have the tablets worked yet?

[Peckris 579]

So remember kiddies. Rare describes something that you aren't going to see every day. Something for which there are normally more buyers than available examples. It doesn't matter what someone else says, if you've never seen a coin before (or have never seen as good an example) there's a chance it's rare. Of course, it's not a guarantee. Some things just aren't all that desirable even though they rarely come up for sale. Limited Edition 'coins' for example, which are usually just worth bullion. And some things are not at all rare (like Charles I Newark siege coins) but there will always be a market for them. That's where the homework comes pays off.

That's why I always add in the 'popularity' factor to the 'rarity' and 'condition' factors. Some of those bun penny varieties are rarer than 1933s but fetch less than 5 grand because there are only a few collectors. On the other hand, a BU 1912H will always fetch way more than it merits, as it gives numerous collectors the pleasure of owning a BU Heatons penny.

....described as EF and as Mr Cooke overgraded his Williams I kept it....

Discreet cough. I'd say not just Williams. [Looks over shoulder at lawyer breathing down his neck]. But they always refund if dissatisfied!!

[VickySilver 830]

Uhhh, Peck the '12H fetching "more than it deserves" not quite fair as demand dictates a higher price for it. At least a legitimate date and not a die state "rarity" or one of those da--ed slender 3s...

[Peckris 579]

Uhhh, Peck the '12H fetching "more than it deserves" not quite fair as demand dictates a higher price for it. At least a legitimate date and not a die state "rarity" or one of those da--ed slender 3s...

That's exactly what I meant! Popularity = demand = coin types fetching higher than their rarity dictates. There were 16 million 1912H if memory serves. Hardly a £200 in BU item...

[VickySilver 830]

Well, I think nice red examples are not as common as their collectors and so the price. Now if only the 19KNs could come down to 200...

[scott 144]

1912H is more common then 1934 based on the mintages, never much fuss made over that or the 8 million 1932 :/

[VickySilver 830]

Urrrggggghhhhh, mintage is only one facet of value determination & does not reflect how many were actually even made in earlier years, let alone survivorship, condition and completely derails demand factors. Please let us keep mintage figures in perspective when it comes to value.

20th C. Heaton mint pennies are limited to three dates as well, and so type/mintmark presentation is another factor.

[Red Riley 2]

Urrrggggghhhhh, mintage is only one facet of value determination & does not reflect how many were actually even made in earlier years, let alone survivorship, condition and completely derails demand factors. Please let us keep mintage figures in perspective when it comes to value.

20th C. Heaton mint pennies are limited to three dates as well, and so type/mintmark presentation is another factor.

Most 1934s were still in GF-VF condition in 1971 whereas 12Hs were generally pretty grim by that stage, although unlike 18 and 19 H/KN (especially KNs) were still fairly common in circulation.

[Peckris 579]

Urrrggggghhhhh, mintage is only one facet of value determination & does not reflect how many were actually even made in earlier years, let alone survivorship, condition and completely derails demand factors. Please let us keep mintage figures in perspective when it comes to value.

20th C. Heaton mint pennies are limited to three dates as well, and so type/mintmark presentation is another factor.

Most 1934s were still in GF-VF condition in 1971 whereas 12Hs were generally pretty grim by that stage, although unlike 18 and 19 H/KN (especially KNs) were still fairly common in circulation.

On the other hand, 12H's lasted pretty well compared to other first series GV, protected by that enormous high wall aka 'rim'! I found quite a few GF examples, even the occasional NVF, but the 19Hs were uniformly horrible.

[VickySilver 830]

As I had posted elsewhere, I think the Workman '19H was very nice and had an extremely well struck reverse albeit the mushy obverse. Did they reuse already tired '18H obverse dies? I have one that has unfortunate toning but has a well struck obverse.

Ooops, did not mean to pirate the thread...

I still like a nice red original '12H and even some of the London mint issues from years shortly afterwards when well struck...The worn bits, even including the 1922 rev. 1927 just do not do anything for me. What about the rest of you?

[davidrj 194]

As I had posted elsewhere, I think the Workman '19H was very nice and had an extremely well struck reverse albeit the mushy obverse.

agree the obverse is horrid, and at £450 too rich for my budget; so will have to stick to the one I have, GF

Edited December 19, 2010 by davidrj

[Peckris 579]

As I had posted elsewhere, I think the Workman '19H was very nice and had an extremely well struck reverse albeit the mushy obverse.

agree the obverse is horrid, and at £450 too rich for my budget; so will have to stick to the one I have, GF

Here's mine - no lustre, no hair, but otherwise as EF as they come Now for the good bit - it cost me fifteen quid as part of a large bronze penny lot from Warwick & Warwick in the late 90s :) Sigh, those days are well and truly over.

[VickySilver 830]

I saw the Workman specimen and actually attractive obverse despite the lesser hair detail. That coin has NO circulation wear or lustre breaks and very nice indeed although not the best seen, certainly amongst the top 20% of uncirculated of this date I have seen - nice metal in fact.

I am beginning to suspect that these dies were quite worn and NOT a soft strike for die preservation as has been sometimes stated. The reverse of this coin is very sharp as well.

Edited December 28, 2010 by VickySilver

[Peckris 579]

I am beginning to suspect that these dies were quite worn and NOT a soft strike for die preservation as has been sometimes stated. The reverse of this coin is very sharp as well.

Yes, though the difference between the two is quite subtle - many so-called 'soft strikes' are simply the result of worn dies I believe. It does make you wonder when exactly the Mint out-sourced the Heatons and Kings Norton jobs in 1918 and 1919? Clearly, from the numbers struck in 1912, and the good state of strike, the Heatons job must have been set up pretty early on that year. Perhaps in 1918 and 1919, the two subsidiaries were asked to be on 'standby' and more precise instructions would be sent along with the dies to be used? Clearly, in both years, many Mint pennies are also poor obverse strikes as a result of worn dies - it may be that the dies sent to Heatons and KN were a mix of very worn, quite worn, and the odd one that was still quite good (which would account for the tiny number that are found not only in high grade but with good detail.

I wish there was a good source of information about all this.