Slab or not to Slab?

[Mat 2]

Or Technically de-slab

Very sorry about the pictures, its almost impossible to take pics through a slab, especially of Edward's hair, and that’s hard enough at the best of times without a slab!

I just bought this 1903 half crown, its slabbed at American grade AU58 which I believe is 1 grade point from being mint state?

I do not believe the slab or the determined grade is doing the coin any justice. Its practically got full mint lustre with a couple of bag marks. The only significant mark is the small black one in front of Edwards mouth and that is not a dig or scratch. The crud above Edward’s head it on the slab not the coin.

And the age old question is................Would any one recommend removing the coin out of the slab? And would anyone push the boundaries of a higher grade?

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I just bought this 1903 half crown, its slabbed at American grade AU58 which I believe is 1 grade point from being mint state?

Would any one recommend removing the coin out of the slab? And would anyone push the boundaries of a higher grade?

[/quote

Well, as you know, the Sheldon scale goes up to 70. My personal view is that British coins in US slabs don't command any premium, or even that much respect - the more so with such a hard series as Edward.

Might as well take it out and start again, I always do.

[TomGoodheart 400]

Slabs as far as I can see serve two purposes. Firstly to protect a coin. And secondly, when issued by certain grading companies, to give some assurance about grade and autheticity.

If you don't believe the grade given and feel you'd prefer the coin out of the slab, break it out. Unless you want to sell it to Americans (and they still buy unslabbed coins even if they have a preference for slabbed ones, since few other countries are really into the things), why not?

Personally I think they are a bloody nuisance. I store my coins in trays and a slab is useless to me. And though they may be great for US coins, graded according to their system, I still find their grading of British coins can be off.

However some people like them. Keeps sticky fingers off your pristine Cu and silver and if you're into dropping things regulary the slab will protect from dings. Possibly some even find them aesthetic. I don't.

The only caveat of course is if breaking a slab, take care not to damage the coin in the process!

[Colin G. 147]

I have to admit I have never been a big fan of official slabs, but do store my coins in their own slabs (that can be re-opened).

I have however recently slabbed a few of the 1825 farthings with CGS just to see how they got on, and so I could have a look at the product. I have been pleasantly surprised with the results, although the farthings I intend to keep I have not yet sent for slabbing. CGS do appear to be a bit harsher at grading than their US counterparts but this was expected. One was bodybagged for having a very small spot of verdigris between the trident prongs, but if a coin is rejected you do get a free re-submission, which is an encouraging feature.

I have cracked coins out in the past for storage purposes, and can understand that collectors with cabinets etc will do the same, but I think slabbing is here to stay and will inevitably become more popular.

"Well, as you know, the Sheldon scale goes up to 70. My personal view is that British coins in US slabs don't command any premium, or even that much respect - the more so with such a hard series as Edward." and this is why I think CGS are taking a harsher approach to determining a grade

Edited December 15, 2010 by Colin G.

[TomGoodheart 400]

I have cracked coins out in the past for storage purposes, and can understand that collectors with cabinets etc will do the same, but I think slabbing is here to stay and will inevitably become more popular.

I think (for me at least) the fact that a slabbed coin takes up at least twice the space as an unslabbed one in a tray or paper envelope or one of those card/plastic flips with windows is a drawback. Especially if you store coins at the bank, where space costs. And even with modern slabs, it still seem difficult to get a decent photograph of a coin in a slab.

Of course, the main reason I'm not keen is that I like to be able to look at a whole coin and I'm not worried about handling it (pretty much all of mine are toned by many years of exposure to the air and collectors' fingers). Slabbed coins you struggle to see the edge and don't get that 'holding history' feeling. But I'm sure if I collected copper or silver proofs where fingermarks or tarnishing were undesirable it would be a different matter.

So while slabbed coins quite possibly will become commoner, I'm not sure they will necessarily be 'popular'.

[1949threepence 3,367]

I've actually only bought one slabbed coin, and I did break that out of the slab, in order to place it in my cabinet. Don't much like slabs, and as Tom says, they take up too much space, are not storage friendly, and you can't handle them.

That said, I did agree with the MS grading description of the coin I bought.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I think for me, the debate on whether to slab or not to slab (with CGS) breaks down like this;

For.

1. The coin is protected from the moisture usually imparted upon a coin by the close inspection often required - i.e. it doesn't matter if you breathe on it and you don't have to wear gloves.

2. There is an independently held record of your collection held on their website, with photographs, should anything happen to it.

3. They have a reputation for strict grading - this can only help the resale value and probably recoups the slabbing fee. You do get more bidders I have found.

4. The coin is guaranteed to be genuine, or they will pay you the market value. With forgery going the way it is, I believe this will come more and more into play. It's also a factor when it comes to resale.

5. If you buy some of their tailor made boxes, storage isn't an issue.

6. If you want to show it to someone you can just stick it in your pocket and you don't have to worry about what they do with it.

7. I think it's an attractive presentation.

Against

1. Cost

2. You can't take a decent photo

3. Lustre on bronze is subdued a bit to the eye

All my 'A' collection are in slabs.

[VickySilver 830]

I think another point is that not all slabs, or companies, are created equally. PCGS is not infallible but generally a bit more credence can be given their grading on milled bits of the 19th and 20h C. versus some of the others, and NGC not too bad generally. The othe American companies occ. leave something to be desired. At least to me, I still need to see a few more CGS coins...

Trays definately appear more pleasing to site, but I have seen many a coin mistreated by hamfisted dealers and collectors complete with finger prints, drops, saliva, and worse...Also, no cabinet friction over time in a slab.

[ski 1]

I use a mixture of storage methods, cabinet, boxes of paper envelopes etc.

I have slabs, all cgs , and i like them, storage isnt a problem for me, but when friends or family show an interest in my collection, its always the slabs that come out as they take the handling.

[Peter 615]

I have about 12 slabbed coins but in my trays I've just written a note"better one in the slab box" the slab box consists of 1/4's farthings,3ds & florins...it would cost a fortune to have all slabs (any tips on breaking slabs appreciated).

CGS slabbed a £90 coin and then wanted £150 for it...It had edge damage which was hidden by the slabbing...hence the majority of my coins will remain raw.

[ski 1]

its the not knowing whats going on with the edge, i think, that puts off most people, im not sure there is a good way of opening a slab......

[Red Riley 2]

The big issue for me is that what had once been a coin is now a lump of ugly plastic with a sterile, untouchable coin in it.

[Peckris 579]

The big issue for me is that what had once been a coin is now a lump of ugly plastic with a sterile, untouchable coin in it.

Ditto, that's how I feel too. I wish there was an infallible way that slabbing companies could provide a grading and authentication service (involving photographs which could be slabbed instead of the coin) that leaves the coin free. Anyone mistreating or substituting the coin for another when they tried to resell would run up against buyers who would say "Hey, it's not what's on the photo - have it back and give me my money back please".

[1949threepence 3,367]

I think another point is that not all slabs, or companies, are created equally. PCGS is not infallible but generally a bit more credence can be given their grading on milled bits of the 19th and 20h C. versus some of the others, and NGC not too bad generally. The othe American companies occ. leave something to be desired. At least to me, I still need to see a few more CGS coins...

Trays definately appear more pleasing to site, but I have seen many a coin mistreated by hamfisted dealers and collectors complete with finger prints, drops, saliva, and worse...Also, no cabinet friction over time in a slab.

Those finger prints can actually be over a century old, though. You can't necessarily attribute them directly to mistreatment by dealers and collectors over the years. Same applies to carbon spots etc.

[VickySilver 830]

What I have seen is dealers to hold copper twixt thumb and index and not bother with holding by the edge...I have been shocked by cavalier handling seen at shows, etc.

[1949threepence 3,367]

What I have seen is dealers to hold copper twixt thumb and index and not bother with holding by the edge...I have been shocked by cavalier handling seen at shows, etc.

Thereby disrespecting both the coin and potential buyer. Not good.

[Geordie582 18]

OK! Let's throw a pebble in the pond. How about hammered? Personally I think slabs areOK for the modern machine produced coins, but you just lose too much when it's a hammered coin. They are not always neatly round or flat and the tone is everything. Also, the fingerprints, if any, could be several centuries old. Ancient and modern don't mix.

[Gary D 76]

OK! Let's throw a pebble in the pond. How about hammered? Personally I think slabs areOK for the modern machine produced coins, but you just lose too much when it's a hammered coin. They are not always neatly round or flat and the tone is everything. Also, the fingerprints, if any, could be several centuries old. Ancient and modern don't mix.

At least you won't have to worry about damaging them when removing from the slab, there's every chance you might even improve the coin.

[Sylvester 15]

Anyone who has been on this forum for several years may remember all too well my views on slabbing. I have to confess to having moderated my ideas somewhat substantially since then.

There was a time when I was anti-slabbing, and with good reason too. I have always enjoyed handling the coins I own, looking at them from all aspects, obverse, reverse and edges. Something that slabs hinder, particularly the edges. I have a strong passion for early milled and hammered coins and with hammered, as Geordie rightly points out, why would you want them slabbed? To me it's kind of like going to a museum and looking at coins behind glass. So that was my pre-2008 stance.

However, in recent years I've mellowed somewhat on slabs, particularly considering my collecting fields have shifted slightly (although I was dealing with US coins long before my views changed). To me it's not so much the guarantee that the coin is genuine (because i'm sure we're all aware of instances where TPGs have been fooled and have slabbed fakes, or worse still fake slabs!)

For me the slab really comes into its own on three grounds.

1. It offers the coin more protection from the environment (although not infallible).

2. Photographic evidence of the coin and proof that you own in.

But for me the most important 3. It prevents mishandling of coins.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard collectors and dealers complain about the classic, "I found my late relative's coins, but they were dirty so I gave them a quick clean before I brought them here for valuing, how much are they worth?"

Anything that stops coins, that were once well loved, from being completely ruined by a totally uninformed heir has to be a good move in my book. Frankly, I have little sympathy for the heirs losing out here, for me it's the fact that some coins have survived so well for so many years and could be eagerly sought after and enjoyed by real collectors but are totally ruined in a matter of minutes. Imagine what could have been a darkly toned UNC Bun Head penny presented to you freshly polished with brasso. It'd break the heart.

[Sylvester 15]

If you do decide to break the coin out Mat, ensure you're careful! On a US forum I was once advised that there are numerous ways to crack coins out. Some use all kinds of things from pliers to clip bits of, hammers, chisels, vises, none of which sound very safe. One of the safest methods I came across was wrap the slab up in a soft cloth all way around and then use G-Clamps and slowly apply pressure to the edges of the slab or if you prefer on the surface of the slab in the label area, anywhere as far away from the coin as possible. You can just use one clamp. Just turn careful until you hear it crack. Unwrap and inspect the slab, if it needs a little more persuasion, re-wrap in cloth and apply a little more pressure, or perhaps from a different direction (depending upon how it has cracked).

I've cracked two coins out using this method, a valueless Lincoln cent (as a test), followed by a decent grade fairly scare gold 2-ducat piece from the 1780s, nothing like pressure, but both came out totally fine. It just takes patience and nerve.

Another method is to wrap it in cloth/rags and hit one of the long edges with a hammer. I'm not keen on this method though as it's harder to regulate the pressure, hit it too hard and you could damage the coin.

[Peter 615]

I have a few slabbed farthings which I would like to break out...but have decided not to and have put a note in their space's and keep all slabs away from my trays.

[Rob 3,152]

CGS slabbed a £90 coin and then wanted £150 for it...It had edge damage which was hidden by the slabbing...hence the majority of my coins will remain raw.

Not had that with CGS - yet. But I've had a half a dozen PCGS & NGC slabs graded at 64 & 65 which have had edge damage exposed on removal. It p's you off a bit when you are spending hundreds of pounds a time to find this out.