Insurance

[Boomstick 0]

Hi all,

Many people here seem to have quite extensive collections. I was wondering how you go about insuring them - are there specialist companies? Do they ask that you keep everything in a safe? Also, do you have to constantly update them on your current collection? Any advice would be appreciated.

[DaveG38 405]

Hi all,

Many people here seem to have quite extensive collections. I was wondering how you go about insuring them - are there specialist companies? Do they ask that you keep everything in a safe? Also, do you have to constantly update them on your current collection? Any advice would be appreciated.

Boomstick,

Like several others on this forum, I opted for specialist insurance purely for my coin collection, using the Stamp Insurance company down in Devon. They insure my collection, which is kept at the bank, for a premium slightly higher than that which I got with my standard household insurance. However, although that looks odd, read on ....... I found it quite difficult to find a standard insurance company that would adequately insure the collection whilst at home. Most wouldn't insure any single coin above £1000, many wanted major upgrades to security at home, including alarms and most simply regarded the total value of the coins as part of the house contents, thus limiting the overall value of the insurance. They also wanted to pay out at 2/3 of the Spink value. Add to this the steadily escalating value of the coins and I was finding it difficult to obtain adequate insurance.

The net result of all this over several years was that although I could find an insurer, the premiums escalated to a ridiculous figure. At the last demand they wanted £800 or so for the house, contents and coins, of which about £200 was for the coins (even though they were at a bank). By opting for the specialist insurance through the Stamp Insurance Company, I had to pay a bit more for the premium on the coins (but I was able to escalate the value to their true level)at £225, but this was more than offset by a huge reduction in house and contents insurance which I got by shopping around. By no longer requiring the coin insurance as part of house and contents, I ended up with an overall saving of around £400 for the year, which was great.

Hope this helps.

[Peter 615]

I dont't care for insurance....many will...but when on holiday we just split the coins over the house...plus my other bits...I will be buying quality G11 Furniture soon to keep the tax man at bay.....We have a great contact at bargain prices...we recently got a a huge bill for inheritance tax....NEVER again.

[Peter 615]

I dont't care for insurance....many will...but when on holiday we just split the coins over the house...plus my other bits...I will be buying quality G11 Furniture soon to keep the tax man at bay.....We have a great contact at bargain prices...we recently got a a huge bill for inheritance tax....NEVER again.

I/WE halve already paid ...young again..I get so upset...I fear for my daughters although I will pay for them and also scum bags.

[Peckris 579]

I am deeply deeply suspicious of insurance, regarding it as a kind of sophisticated swindle. After paying premiums over the course of many years, and without claiming, consider how much money you have spent on ... what? Peace of mind? Really, by spending lots of money?

Therefore, rightly or wrongly, I cover mine under the standard contents policy, as I have few other valuables.

There are other forms of "insurance" too, more practical and a damn sight cheaper :

1. Window locks on all windows, mortice locks on all outside doors

2. Discretion! Don't tell people (except here) that you collect coins. Don't give out your name and address to anyone connected with coins, unless absolutely necessary (e.g. buying on eBay, and even there, you don't need to use your real name).

3. Lockable cabinets inside locked cupboards and - as Peter has said - a variety of scattered locations. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket.

4. If you do have very valuable coins (I'd say, worth over £500; your own limit may differ) then keep those perhaps in the bank.

Of all these, being absolutely discreet is the single, cheapest, most important thing. (Don't advertise!)

That's my view anyway. Of course, if I get burgled then I may sing a different tune altogether.

[Peter 615]

I will take my chance as we have a mental springer who guards us..when on hols I spread everything and I'cant face a bank.

[Peter 615]

Jake the springer goes potty with anyone within 200yds of the house but when away we just seclude anything nice..plus the neighbours on both sides kill at 20 yards.AHH Suffolk.

[DaveG38 405]

I don't want to increase anybody's paranoia, but a few years ago, my credit card company approached me in order to arrange a change of card. The reason was that a coin dealer I used to buy from had been burgled and, apart from credit card details, one of the things stolen was lists containing all the details of his customers. From that a burglar could soon sort out who bought what and could judge which collectors to go for. Another situation that gave cause for concern was some people who attacked and badly injured a collector in his home and forced him to reveal the location of his coins.

With both these cases in mind, and with an eye to the total value of my collection, I decided to go for the bank option. Yes, its a pain and insurance costs, but I'm in favour of safe not sorry. Appreciate others may see it differently, and hiding coins around the house seems a good idea to me. Of course this won't help you in a fire!!!

[Gary D 76]

I don't want to increase anybody's paranoia, but a few years ago, my credit card company approached me in order to arrange a change of card. The reason was that a coin dealer I used to buy from had been burgled and, apart from credit card details, one of the things stolen was lists containing all the details of his customers. From that a burglar could soon sort out who bought what and could judge which collectors to go for. Another situation that gave cause for concern was some people who attacked and badly injured a collector in his home and forced him to reveal the location of his coins.

With both these cases in mind, and with an eye to the total value of my collection, I decided to go for the bank option. Yes, its a pain and insurance costs, but I'm in favour of safe not sorry. Appreciate others may see it differently, and hiding coins around the house seems a good idea to me. Of course this won't help you in a fire!!!

I keep my collection in my Peter Nichols cabinet and insure with Stamp insurance. The cabinet is very heavy and quite robust, I have it chained to a wall with a snatch alarm fitted, although it all goes into the bank if we are going to be away for more than a day or two. I have a flight case that is converted to take the cabinet trays which make life much easier. Here in deepest Suffolk you can't be too careful.

Gary D

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and made us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

[argentumandcoins 70]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and made us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

Your house security(and valuables) are rather like a females virginity though. It just takes one prick to get in and they're gone forever.....

[DaveG38 405]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and made us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

I too have never had a problem, but I just felt that the book value of the coins meant that one burglary could not only undo a lifetime's work, but also I probably wouldn't be covered on my insurance. The issue first came to my attention a couple of years ago, when I examined my insurance documents and found that the limit of insurance for the coins was £6k and the book value was £60k! A few thousand either way, I could live with, but 10 times the value was way too much. I then changed insurers and got a better deal as far as agreed value went, but then values went up further to £90k, especially because of the gold, and my insurer's total limit was exceeded again. Add to that the difficulty of finding anybody who would add this level of value to their 'standard' policy and I opted to go for the Stamp Insurance company, with bog standard house and contents from a 'High Street' insurer (LV I think) and as I said earlier this has proved to be much cheaper overall.

All I will say to you all is take particular care of your coins in terms of security etc., make sure your insurance is really covering you and be honest with yourself about how you would feel losing them if the worst happens!! I went for better safe than sorry, but then I was a Business Continuity Manager in a previous life, so I guess I would.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

If I was going to insure, I'd use a specialist every time. 'Ordinary' insurers when faced with a claim for collectables will invoke every clause in the book to avoid paying out book value. In fact, which perhaps is your point, it's not really even worth paying for, so slim are the chances of fair payout.

It's actually quite amusing, the security issues involved in collecting stuff.

A few years ago I had accumulated a few deactivated WW1 Lee Enfield rifles. I had the certificates for all of them, but I wasn't comfortable having them anymore. I wasn't going to dump them in a river because they were worth £1000 potentially, IF, I could find a buyer. I lived in a town where there was an antique gun shop, but it was a half mile walk away across a common, heavily populated with dog walkers and childrens games of cricket etc. I didn't have a car at the time and the shop is deep within a mall.

So, I walked over and asked if he would be interested in them ? Bring 'em in he says and I'll tell you.

Not unreasonable perhaps, but I was hoping you'd either make me an offer or come round and look at them. No, he's not going to do that. I'm not massively happy about walking across a busy common for 15 minutes carrying 3 Lee Enfields - I don't reckon I'll get to finish the journey. Put them in a bin liner he says, you'll be ok.

So, I went home and bundled them up in a bin liner , all 3 of 'em. I don't know if you've ever picked up 3 WW1 Lee Enfields, but they are not light. I decided the only way I could carry them that far was if I stuck them on my shoulder, which I did and looked in the mirror.

I looked like Chuck Norris.

I couldn't do it, so I rang the old bill and asked if they could send a sergeant or equivalent round, not some recently qualified politically correct Gestapo enforcer. (I didn't say that)

They asked why, I said I need some advice on a delicate matter.

He was brilliant. I told him the whole story, he gave me a lift to the mall, waited outside whilst the gun dealer told me he didn't want them they weren't really his thing, and took me home again.

His parting shot was to ask if they were insured. I'll always remember that and thinking that if you have to tell a mainstream insurance company exactly what you have - individually list sensitive items, you might as well put an advert in the paper, if you want some guns/high end coins, come break into my house.

Sorry, that's gone on so long I've completely forgotten what my point was

[Peter 615]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and ma.de us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

In the eighties we were on a rugby tour based on the West Coast of Scotland...they locked us in There might be a few half English roses up there...we all did our bit

I still get the xmas card and a big grin she is now probally a 20 stone munter ....I could and would of married her...then I met Mrs Irish Peter

Edited December 18, 2010 by Peter

[Gary D 76]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and ma.de us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

In the eighties we were on a rugby tour based on the West Coast of Scotland...they locked us in There might be a few half English roses up there...we all did our bit

I still get the xmas card and a big grin she is now probally a 20 stone munter ....I could and would of married her...then I met Mrs Irish Peter

I know we are gradually drifting off topic but do you ever show your collection to other collectors or are we all a bunch of Billy no mates when it comes to coin collecting.

[1949threepence 3,367]

You lot are making Suffolk sound like Harlem, or the Bronx....

When I was 18, I went on a rugby tour to New York and stayed in the Bronx. We stayed out late in a bar (as you do) and got up to go back to the accomodation and the bartender refused to let us out. He locked the door and ma.de us sleep on the pool tables. He said there wasn't the slightest chance of us making it back.

I do feel the need to balance Dave's post with the comment that most of us have collected for decades and never had a problem. We do do anxiety rather well in this country...

In the eighties we were on a rugby tour based on the West Coast of Scotland...they locked us in There might be a few half English roses up there...we all did our bit

I still get the xmas card and a big grin she is now probally a 20 stone munter ....I could and would of married her...then I met Mrs Irish Peter

I know we are gradually drifting off topic but do you ever show your collection to other collectors or are we all a bunch of Billy no mates when it comes to coin collecting.

Billy no mates here. For one thing, there's no local coin club in my area. Maybe even more pertinently, I don't know of anyone among either friends, family or colleagues who has the remotest interest in coin collecting. I have tried to talk to my girlfriend about it, but her eyes just glaze over. So it's just me, dealers, e bay and this forum

As far as insurance is concerned, I haven't bothered with it. I have discovered a very effective hiding place for my coins. If burglars broke in, they'd have to be seriously bloody good and have a lot of time, to find it. Although if they broke in while I was in the house, then I could potentially be placed in the same horrible situation as the collector described by DaveG38, earlier. Sadly, the law dictates that householders are largely impotent when it comes to self defence measures against intruders ~ that really is off topic so I'll shut up and get back in my box

[Red Riley 2]

Personally I don't subscribe to the view that insurance is a waste of time and money - for coins and other valuable items at any rate.

Frankly, the days when insurers could hide behind Clause 13b(vi) on page 5 of the small print have long gone. Much legislation has been passed in recent years ensuring that this won't happen. If you answer all the questions on the proposal form truthfully then you should be OK.

In the event that you file a claim and are not getting satisfaction from your insurer, then you have recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I am a bit of an insider here as I spent a couple of years working for the ombudsman, and far from feeling that they did not uphold sufficient complaints, my main frustration was undeserving individuals filing dubious claims, having them upheld by a lenient ombudsman on scanty evidence and effectively raping the system.

Where the ombudsman did get a slightly dubious reputation was on the time-barring of complaints in such as the Pensions Mis-selling or Mortgage Endowment Reviews, but this was outside the ombudsman's control, the time-frames being set by parliament.

On a slightly different tack, you are asking for trouble if you don't have decent home security. If you have a collection worth say, £50k, isn't it reasonable to invest £3-4k in a decent safe and intruder alarm? Of course, most collections won't be worth this much, and where you draw the line is entirely up to you, but it certainly gives you peace of mind. Additionally, good security will make your insurance cheaper.

It is easy to be cynical about all these safeguards, but in my view that is misplaced and for your own benefit, you really should think hard about protecting what is a substantial investment.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Red Riley

[Peter 615]

I've had house insurance since 1987 and never made a claim....The only reason was the mortgage...Given a choice I wouldn't bother to feed some ruddy faced geek.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Peter

[TomGoodheart 402]

Mine are insured through my household policy. One coin is listed separately due to value (still less than daughter's violin which was my Granddad's) and the whole collection is named as such. I have a valuation from the local BANS (a bit out of date) to back up any claim if needed. I also have a safety deposit box at the bank I can pop stuff into. Though at £65 a year (plus £10 to get stuff out/in) it's not cheap.

As to no mates, I have 2. Or rather I have been visited by two other collectors and we've chatted about coins and they've had a look at my preciouses. But they are people I corresponded with for quite a while and trust.

I also used to have a PO Box for anonymity. But I now buy so rarely that seems a waste.

[Peter 615]

I was working in Norwich a few years ago and people with insurance were an easy deal...take it as read.I will never tell people of my £1,000,000 collection

Edited December 19, 2010 by Peter