Interesting newsreel

[Gary D 76]

Ok I stole these links from another forum, but I think you will find them interesting

Farthings

QEII coins

New Mint

[Peckris 579]

Ok I stole these links from another forum, but I think you will find them interesting

Farthings

QEII coins

New Mint

That Pathé News scriptwriter should be hung for bad puns : the reference to lambs and "mint sauce / Mint saw us" plus "outside broker / broke outsider" were totally groanworthy

Interesting little film though. Looks as if lustre was imparted before striking not during it.

[RobJ 0]

Thanks for the Links Gary.

Most interesting viewing indeed.

[Gollum 2]

I found this one interesting

[Peckris 579]

I found this one interesting

Yes, that was very interesting. I'd not realised quite how many stages were involved in preparing proofs.

[Debbie 58]

Yes thanks for sharing those Garys - I enjoyed watching them all. This might seem a silly question, but are all silver coin proofs made of precious metals?

[Gollum 2]

Yes thanks for sharing those Garys - I enjoyed watching them all. This might seem a silly question, but are all silver coin proofs made of precious metals?

I don't really Know Debbie, like you I am a begginer, but I guess the word Silver proof would mean it had to be, then again I have seen the word silver to mean "silver appearance" as well.

I did like the big silver coin the Aussies made recentley, I think it was a 10 kilo coin or such. That would go very nicely in my meagre collection. You all have 363 days till xmas to save up and get me it ! .

[Peckris 579]

Yes thanks for sharing those Garys - I enjoyed watching them all. This might seem a silly question, but are all silver coin proofs made of precious metals?

It depends what you mean by "silver"! What we call silver is actually cupro-nickel, and so are the proofs of those denominations in the sets. However, the Mint often produces silver proofs of individual coins, and advertises them as such. If it's called "silver" by the Royal Mint, that's what it is. And you have to pay much more for it. But if it's a "silver denomination" in the proof sets, it isn't.

To give a practical example.. Jubilee Crowns dated 1977 are one of the commonest commemoratives ever, and were produced in these forms :

Cupro-nickel, available in their millions through banks and post offices at face value.

Cupro-nickel proofs, in the 1977 proof sets.

Silver proofs, sold in special cases for somewhere around £10 at the time. (They're barely worth twice that now, i.e. less in real terms).

[Debbie 58]

You all have 363 days till xmas to save up and get me it !

All that chocolate would be bad for your waist line Gary.

Cupro-nickel, available in their millions through banks and post offices at face value.

Cupro-nickel proofs, in the 1977 proof sets.

Silver proofs, sold in special cases for somewhere around £10 at the time

So is there any way of distiguishing which modern proofs are actually made from silver and which are made from cupro-nickel if they are sold individually? Are they more likely to be VIP proofs for example?

[Peckris 579]

You all have 363 days till xmas to save up and get me it !

All that chocolate would be bad for your waist line Gary.

Cupro-nickel, available in their millions through banks and post offices at face value.

Cupro-nickel proofs, in the 1977 proof sets.

Silver proofs, sold in special cases for somewhere around £10 at the time

So is there any way of distiguishing which modern proofs are actually made from silver and which are made from cupro-nickel if they are sold individually? Are they more likely to be VIP proofs for example?

The genuine silver proofs always come in a separate case, and usually have their certificate from the Mint stating they are 92.5% silver. If it's in a Mint proof set, it isn't silver. And if you compared them side by side, you would very easily tell which are real silver (it has a whitish appearance, and is often less shiny than a cupro-nickel proof.) Here's an example of each on eBay :

Cupro-nickel 1977

Silver 1977

[ski 1]

very interesting videos.

im wondering about proofs, it stated in the video that the proof blanks were double struck, this is so for the modern coin being produced, does anyone know if older proofs, victorian or earlier were double struck?

[Debbie 58]

Ok the penny has dropped!! So the “proofs†that you get as part of a proof set is very different from an actual single proof coin…...

Sooo….what about the 1970 shilling proof coins, were there any sterling silver ones issued? “Check your change†doesn’t seem to mention any 1970 proof sets and all the one I have seen look very dubious (too shiney). Also I have a 1990 proof coin which I am now thinking may be a sterling silver coin even though it was bought separately.

Thanks for your patience Peck!

[Rob 3,152]

Ok the penny has dropped!! So the “proofs” that you get as part of a proof set is very different from an actual single proof coin…...

Sooo….what about the 1970 shilling proof coins, were there any sterling silver ones issued? “Check your change” doesn’t seem to mention any 1970 proof sets and all the one I have seen look very dubious (too shiney). Also I have a 1990 proof coin which I am now thinking may be a sterling silver coin even though it was bought separately.

Thanks for your patience Peck!

The penny hasn't quite dropped.

The RM produced proof sets in 1826, 1831, 1839, 1853, 1887, 1893, 1902, 1911, 1927, 1937, 1950, 1951 and 1970, plus each year subsequent to this date for collectors. Single coins from these years that you may encounter are usually from broken up sets. They are struck from polished dies and blanks with the exception of the 1902 which had a matte finish - a silky non-mirror finish. The effigies may be brilliant and smooth or frosted. Early pieces are frosted, whilst the common years of the 20th century tend not to be. From the recoinage of 1816 onwards and many years in between the above, there were a handful of each denomination struck from specially prepared dies. These are anything from rare to excessively so. Rare in this instance refers to a maximum of a couple dozen pieces struck, with excessively rare being one or two known examples. Prior to 1816, proofs were generally struck at the beginning of each issue, but not all. The exception being 1746 when rather more proof crowns, halfcrowns, shillings and sixpences were struck.

As Peck said, the 20th century silver may or may not be actually silver and will depend on the metal used for currency at the time. The proofs will be very reflective and brilliant as that is how they were made. They will not have been made from silver automatically, though some issues are now produced in both gold and silver. The mint will issue these in a presentation box with a certificate. Trust no one who says it is a silver issue when not accompanied by all the relevant documentation, and even then be wary as there is nothing to stop an unscrupulous person substituting a cupro-nickel example. On its own, you probably wouldn't be able to tell. I notice in your instance, the 1990 5p was produced in both silver and cupro-nickel, but both as part of sets. The former was a two coin set with the old and new sizes/designs. If you want a silver 1990 5p, I suggest you acquire an intact set in its original packaging.

There are also a good number of off-metal strikes and patterns, particularly in the 19th century. Patterns are prospective designs that were not adopted. They tend to be expensive and not normally encountered. They may be struck in silver, or alternatively may be off-metal strikes in a number of other materials such as gold, silver, copper, bronze, tin, aluminium, nickel, Barton's metal etc. Off-metal strikes are those metals other than the normal currency pieces.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Rob

[Peckris 579]

Ok the penny has dropped!! So the “proofs†that you get as part of a proof set is very different from an actual single proof coin…...

Sooo….what about the 1970 shilling proof coins, were there any sterling silver ones issued? “Check your change†doesn’t seem to mention any 1970 proof sets and all the one I have seen look very dubious (too shiney). Also I have a 1990 proof coin which I am now thinking may be a sterling silver coin even though it was bought separately.

Thanks for your patience Peck!

The penny hasn't quite dropped.

The RM produced proof sets in 1826, 1831, 1839, 1853, 1887, 1893, 1902, 1911, 1927, 1937, 1950, 1951 and 1970, plus each year subsequent to this date for collectors. Single coins from these years that you may encounter are usually from broken up sets. They are struck from polished dies and blanks with the exception of the 1902 which had a matte finish - a silky non-mirror finish. The effigies may be brilliant and smooth or frosted. Early pieces are frosted, whilst the common years of the 20th century tend not to be. From the recoinage of 1816 onwards and many years in between the above, there were a handful of each denomination struck from specially prepared dies. These are anything from rare to excessively so. Rare in this instance refers to a maximum of a couple dozen pieces struck, with excessively rare being one or two known examples. Prior to 1816, proofs were generally struck at the beginning of each issue, but not all. The exception being 1746 when rather more proof crowns, halfcrowns, shillings and sixpences were struck.

As Peck said, the 20th century silver may or may not be actually silver and will depend on the metal used for currency at the time. The proofs will be very reflective and brilliant as that is how they were made. They will not have been made from silver automatically, though some issues are now produced in both gold and silver. The mint will issue these in a presentation box with a certificate. Trust no one who says it is a silver issue when not accompanied by all the relevant documentation, and even then be wary as there is nothing to stop an unscrupulous person substituting a cupro-nickel example. On its own, you probably wouldn't be able to tell. I notice in your instance, the 1990 5p was produced in both silver and cupro-nickel, but both as part of sets. The former was a two coin set with the old and new sizes/designs. If you want a silver 1990 5p, I suggest you acquire an intact set in its original packaging.

There are also a good number of off-metal strikes and patterns, particularly in the 19th century. Patterns are prospective designs that were not adopted. They tend to be expensive and not normally encountered. They may be struck in silver, or alternatively may be off-metal strikes in a number of other materials such as gold, silver, copper, bronze, tin, aluminium, nickel, Barton's metal etc. Off-metal strikes are those metals other than the normal currency pieces.

Yes, very true. But I did take Debbie literally when she asked about "modern proofs", which to my mind are postwar - none of the regular year sets (1950, 51, 53, 1970 to the modern day) include real silver. As for coins sold on their own, as I said, only cased items with a certificate are silver (though unscrupulous dealers might substitute, as you say).

I'm not sure about "you couldn't tell just from looking" - the exception perhaps being the 1972 commemorative crown which was probably the first modern commem to be issued in silver form as well as cupro-nickel. Those really are hard to tell apart, unless you have the case and the certificate; but if someone made a swap around, it would be quite difficult to detect without doing a metal test. From 1977 crowns onwards (the 2nd modern proof item where some were struck in silver) it should be far easier to tell, as those links above should demonstrate.

As a brief run down - all silver proofs pre-WW2 are at least 50% silver, and before 1920 are solid silver.

Between 1950 and 1971, no proofs were struck in silver.

From 1972 onwards, SOME items (such as new denominations or new sizes, or higher face value commemorative items like 50p, £1, £2, £5) have a silver issue which may or may not include piedforts - all such items are cased with a certificate from the Royal Mint.

Hope that helps without confusing!

[Coinery 1,157]

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

[Nick 329]

I'm not sure about "you couldn't tell just from looking" - the exception perhaps being the 1972 commemorative crown which was probably the first modern commem to be issued in silver form as well as cupro-nickel. Those really are hard to tell apart, unless you have the case and the certificate; but if someone made a swap around, it would be quite difficult to detect without doing a metal test. From 1977 crowns onwards (the 2nd modern proof item where some were struck in silver) it should be far easier to tell, as those links above should demonstrate.

I notice that Davies lists four types of 1977 crown: currency, proof-like, proof and silver proof. Does anybody know what form the proof-like was issued in? Is it the same as the specimen in the RM presentation pack?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Nick

[Rob 3,152]

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

Easy Coinery. You return to the subject at twenty to two in the morning - like now. Patience isn't a problem either because the same questions are asked every couple of months or so, year in year out. We get quite used to it. If you hang around long enough and become fully conversant, chances are you will end up doing the same!!

Peck - The earlier comment about not being able to tell easily, I was referring to a single coin without any reference present. Unless you are familiar with a type or what purports to be normal, then you are unlikely to be able to make an educated decision.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Rob

[Peckris 579]

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

I'm largely housebound ( ) which gives me lots of time to spend on the net.

[Accumulator 52]

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

I'm largely housebound ( ) which gives me lots of time to spend on the net.

And when you don't find the time, Peckris, everyone asks where the hell you got to!

Edited December 28, 2011 by Accumulator

[Peckris 579]

Rob & Peckris - Christ (forgive me for blasphemy, if it offends you), you guys, where do you find the time or patience to share so much?

I'm largely housebound ( ) which gives me lots of time to spend on the net.

And when you don't find the time, Peckris, everyone asks where the hell you got to!

Haha - very true!!

[Debbie 58]

Well I for one am very grateful for all your time spent explaining and educating...I am on the computer a lot as I run a business from home. I must admit though it is far too easy to become distracted now I have discovered the forum!

[azda 979]

Well I for one am very grateful for all your time spent explaining and educating...I am on the computer a lot as I run a business from home. I must admit though it is far too easy to become distracted now I have discovered the forum!

Its always a learning curve Debbie. Dealers are never off the internet looking for deals or checking auctions etc etc etc, that's how they learn and thats how we learn. I tend to spend a lot of free time looking around the net for a bargain or 3, and i stop by here daily to see if i've missed any gossip or a nice coin someone has purchased. Its not a distraction, its an addiction, i wonder if the DHSS would give us help if we ever become unemployed to conquer our addiction like they do with junkies and Alcholics Instead of the AA meetings, we could go to the CA meetings (Coins Anonymous)

[Peckris 579]

Its not a distraction, its an addiction, i wonder if the DHSS would give us help if we ever become unemployed to conquer our addiction like they do with junkies and Alcholics Instead of the AA meetings, we could go to the CA meetings (Coins Anonymous)

"I'm Dave. And I'm a ... NUMISMATIST."

[azda 979]

Lol

[DaveG38 408]

Its not a distraction, its an addiction, i wonder if the DHSS would give us help if we ever become unemployed to conquer our addiction like they do with junkies and Alcholics Instead of the AA meetings, we could go to the CA meetings (Coins Anonymous)

"I'm Dave. And I'm a ... NUMISMATIST."

Surely that makes them 'NA' meetings!!