1861 Variable dies

[Peckris 579]

and here's the 2nd one, this one the sea stops at linear circle, the other crosses it. Whichever one i decide to sell, if anyone is interested here i'd rather sell to a forum member 1st as i know it would get treated well, if no interest in whichever then i'll put it on the bay

I'd say keep this second one, which looks glorious to me.

[azda 979]

More a worn Y David than broken. I enlarged the picture using the iPhone and can see the other leg of Said Y

[azda 979]

Ok thought i'd upload this picture. The bottom picture is one i've uploaded in this thread, a F33 the top one i think is the same OBV and REV but the border teeth to the last 1 in the date is wider, top is 12 and a half teeth to one and the bottom is 12 teeth

[azda 979]

So i sold the 1st coin in eBay, i paid 68 quid around 5 months ago for it, it Sold for 151:)

[ski 1]

thats a nice healthy return azda.........you dont want to flog my car for me do you?....

so did you get the coin cheaply in the first instance or has prices risen that much? how does that all compare to book prices?

[azda 979]

I'm Not sure ski, i just think high grade copper has gone Mad at the minute, it was a nice coin but if i remember when i bought it that i'd paid book for it at the time

[ski 1]

thats amazing, i have been surprised at the prices paid for copper coins, but such a big increase over such a short time is something else. im left wondering if its a good time to buy, or a good time to sell, what the prices may be in another 6 months?...........i guess a great time to sell any duplicates.

well done azda............now about my car

[ski 1]

incidentally, and of concern to me, ive heard theres predictions in similar price hikes in victorian silver.....

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Copper hit it's all time high today on the metal markets.

[azda 979]

I think it is a good Time to sell duplicates, that was

One of mine and i have another 3 of the Same year but in VF.

The Car I'll sell in Commission ;-)

[ski 1]

commision pah

i wonder how much copper is in that car

does the price of copper affect the value of these particular coins?

i was of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that too many penny collectors were chasing too few coins, especially the varieties, and it was that which was pushing up prices.

[azda 979]

I think you are right about collectors pushing the prices up, i also think that its more the high grade stuff that does well plus New collectors, they're not stashing Cash in the bank cis of the interest rates.

As you can see, where else could you double your

Money and more like i just did, so its always worth investing in high grade items

[Colin G. 147]

I think you are correct, that as the variety market grows, collectors end up having more than one coin bearing the same date, which inevitably has an effect on the number of coins out there. As more varieties are identified it also creates a new market for finding higher grade examples of that variety.

If you look at the bunhead farthings on my site, there are 32 dates to collect, but 155 varieties detailed. I know some collectors will debate whether some varieties are in fact varieties, but even if you take away the smaller varieties, there must be 100 different types

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Oh, for sure, people are not buying old pennies for their copper value, but it's a contributor to the 'greenhouse' effect in the market at the moment.

Folk have become more aware of commodities, gold is beyond most of us in quantity, silver, well, we all have some, but copper we can all buy and there is a massive bun fight it seems.

Lot of interest.

[azda 979]

I've just bought another 2. 1871 and a very nice 1+b beaded border in AUNC. What i might do us Start on the 1860 down the Way in high Grades as lese People want those and perhaps wait a little for the bunhead fight to Calm down

[ski 1]

a bun fight over the bun heads...............okay

[1949threepence 3,367]

thats amazing, i have been surprised at the prices paid for copper coins, but such a big increase over such a short time is something else. im left wondering if its a good time to buy, or a good time to sell, what the prices may be in another 6 months?...........i guess a great time to sell any duplicates.

well done azda............now about my car

....and me. I'm currently forming a collection, and the apparent lack of stable pricing is quite a worry. Although I'm collecting for interest rather than speculation, it would be a bit irritating to say the least, to have paid tip top prices now, only to find they fall back later.

Although you have to look for bargains, we're all lucky with some coins, and not so lucky with others.

[Peckris 579]

Copper hit it's all time high today on the metal markets.

I don't think the price of copper has any bearing on the current craze for high grade buns. If it did, even relatively low-grade 20th Century pennies would be doing a roaring trade, and they aren't.

does the price of copper affect the value of these particular coins?

i was of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that too many penny collectors were chasing too few coins, especially the varieties, and it was that which was pushing up prices.

1. No, not really. 2. Yes, that's more like it, but also factor in the 'craze of the moment' snowball effect - like property prices up to 2007/8.

I've just bought another 2. 1871 and a very nice 1+b beaded border in AUNC. What i might do us Start on the 1860 down the Way in high Grades as lese People want those and perhaps wait a little for the bunhead fight to Calm down

OMG Az, have you had a lottery win recently, or what?

[azda 979]

Lol, No Peck, i just reinvest what i make on the bay and sooner or later make a wee purchase for myself and My collection

[Peckris 579]

Lol, No Peck, i just reinvest what i make on the bay and sooner or later make a wee purchase for myself and My collection

Wow, would you sell some stuff for me on the bay then??

[azda 979]

Lol, No Peck, i just reinvest what i make on the bay and sooner or later make a wee purchase for myself and My collection

Wow, would you sell some stuff for me on the bay then??

You going to post it to me first Peck lol

[1949threepence 3,367]

a bun fight over the bun heads...............okay

No pun intended over the bun, of course

Copper hit it's all time high today on the metal markets.

I don't think the price of copper has any bearing on the current craze for high grade buns. If it did, even relatively low-grade 20th Century pennies would be doing a roaring trade, and they aren't.

I agree, Peck. The actual price of copper might have a knock on effect with the bulk sale of low grade coins en masse, from any era. It would not explain the current craze for buns. However, apart from the very rare examples, like the 1869, 1875H, and to a lesser extent 1864 crosslet 4 and 1871, collectors are pushing strongly for the very high grades, which have a premium on them orders of magnitude greater than their pro rata value to lower grade examples would indicate.

Maybe that's due to their increasing scarcity as more and more find their way into private collections and therefore permanently or semi permanently withdrawn from trade. You could argue that has always been the case, so maybe there is some other factor at work which we can only speculate on ~ or a combination of 2 factors only one of which we can readily indentify.

Edited February 9, 2011 by 1949threepence

[argentumandcoins 70]

thats amazing, i have been surprised at the prices paid for copper coins, but such a big increase over such a short time is something else. im left wondering if its a good time to buy, or a good time to sell, what the prices may be in another 6 months?...........i guess a great time to sell any duplicates.

well done azda............now about my car

....and me. I'm currently forming a collection, and the apparent lack of stable pricing is quite a worry. Although I'm collecting for interest rather than speculation, it would be a bit irritating to say the least, to have paid tip top prices now, only to find they fall back later.

Although you have to look for bargains, we're all lucky with some coins, and not so lucky with others.

There is absolutely no sign of prices slowing down, never mind falling.

Coin prices rise year on year across the board and a high quality collection really is better than money in the bank.

The reasons for the rise are numerous and can be linked with poor interest rates in banks, rises in precious metal prices (this has pushed up the prices on low grade silver), publicity over things like mule 20p and 1933 penny stirring interest from new collectors etc etc etc.

Unlike the majority on here I buy in auctions and I can tell you that they are smoking at the moment. This again pushes your buying price up because dealers are having to pay more at auction.

Any of you thinking of selling think long and hard. Yes, you will turn a profit on what you sell BUT, if you decide to replace your sales in a few months/years time you may find yourself priced out of the market.

Now may however be a good time to assess your aims. If you decide you don't like a particular part of your collection and would like to concentrate on one denomination/reign why not dispose of a portion and re-invest?

Food for thought folks.

[Peckris 579]

I don't think the price of copper has any bearing on the current craze for high grade buns. If it did, even relatively low-grade 20th Century pennies would be doing a roaring trade, and they aren't.

I agree, Peck. The actual price of copper might have a knock on effect with the bulk sale of low grade coins en masse, from any era. It would not explain the current craze for buns. However, apart from the very rare examples, like the 1869, 1875H, and to a lesser extent 1864 crosslet 4 and 1871, collectors are pushing strongly for the very high grades, which have a premium on them orders of magnitude greater than their pro rata value to lower grade examples would indicate.

Maybe that's due to their increasing scarcity as more and more find their way into private collections and therefore permanently or semi permanently withdrawn from trade. You could argue that has always been the case, so maybe there is some other factor at work which we can only speculate on ~ or a combination of 2 factors only one of which we can readily indentify.

That's a good point. I wonder if the same fever has extended to the commoner dates in high grade, i.e. 1887 - 1893 - anyone noticed?

[1949threepence 3,367]

There is absolutely no sign of prices slowing down, never mind falling.

Coin prices rise year on year across the board and a high quality collection really is better than money in the bank.

The reasons for the rise are numerous and can be linked with poor interest rates in banks, rises in precious metal prices (this has pushed up the prices on low grade silver), publicity over things like mule 20p and 1933 penny stirring interest from new collectors etc etc etc.

Unlike the majority on here I buy in auctions and I can tell you that they are smoking at the moment. This again pushes your buying price up because dealers are having to pay more at auction.

Any of you thinking of selling think long and hard. Yes, you will turn a profit on what you sell BUT, if you decide to replace your sales in a few months/years time you may find yourself priced out of the market.

Now may however be a good time to assess your aims. If you decide you don't like a particular part of your collection and would like to concentrate on one denomination/reign why not dispose of a portion and re-invest?

Food for thought folks.

There can be no doubt you are correct as of now, and hopefully will be going forward, John.

With regard to your point about disposal of one part of a collection to bloster purchases for the denomination you really want, I did think about selling my shilling collection, but decided I was too fond of them