Introduction

[syorks 0]

Hello all. Delighted to find an Internet forum (on any subject) that doesn't look at all abusive. I had almost given up.

I would like to introduce myself - I am sure I am fairly typical, someone who was brought up to love and respect coins and their history, but over the years have never had the time or the money to keep up with the hobby.

I have two collections - it is the second I am looking for some advice on.

FIRSTLY though, I am 55 now. From the age of around 5 to 15 I was very interested in circulation coins, and loved the fact that in those days you could build a collection from the change in your pocket, getting bags of coins from banks, or looking round junk shops. I also inherited a few older coins from my grandfather (not much value but interesting all the same) and bought a few pieces from my pocket money. I wanted to pursue a particular interest in British Tokens, but never had the money. My prize possession is actually a book - Nineteenth Century Token Coinage which sent a shiver down my spine when I recently found it at my mothers.

So, that collection has currently been buried in my mothers wardrobe, where it has been untouched for 40 years. It will be mostly worthless, worn, dirty old pennies from 1860 onwards, but hopefully there will be a few gems... when I get the time to look. I know there is a small suitcase full of unsorted pennies, and the rest is in plastic drawers, I think they called them Bitzaboxes.

SECONDLY, and more of interest at the moment.... in 2005 I had a bit of spare cash and decided to start buying newly minted Gold Proof collections from the Royal Mint. I had always wanted to own a Gold Sovereign. I didn't continue with this unfortunately because of a few problems dealing with the Royal Mint, I found them very unhelpful, so I just got a few sets - the 4 coin Britannia set, similar Sovereign set, a separate sovereign, and a 4x £1 Bridges set.

I think that going for the Gold Proof versions was probably a mistake, as there is more interest in the value of gold rather than the value of proof sets.

Roughly speaking, I paid around £3800 for these, they are currently SELLING for around £6500 from dealers, or worth around £5300 as scrap gold value. Obviously I would hate to see them melted down... but there are so many pitfalls when selling to anyone - the one dealer I have recently dealt with turned out to be a nasty little piece of work... better not say too much !

And there are the problems of posting, getting the money etc etc. It is almost easier to just take them to a scrap gold dealer and get the cash locally, or just leave them locked away. Before anyone mentions EBay... I am tempted but am put off by the amount of cons (not coins) on the site, as I see members have rightly highlighted here. I have never dealt with EBay, but have used PayPal for a couple of transactions and I was shocked when a small payment to a charity went wrong and Pay Pal e.mailed me and said "Don't bother us with this, we don't want to know", and similarly ignored the charity who had just entered into a contract with Pay Pal. They then deleted my account. So obviously I won't be trusting them again !

But I am also thinking this. I know a lot of Gold bullion coins are getting melted down. If people are being tempted to let Proof sets go this way, then I wonder just how many of these limited edition sets will be left in future years. Will their scarcity add to their value ? Anyone have any knowledge of the extent to which Gold proof coins are disappearing ?

Anyway I hope I haven't bored you all. I will keep reading the forum and may hopefully be able to help in the future.

[Gary 7]

First of all. hello and welcome to the forum. Most of us are pretty friendly here.

As to your question regarding gold coins. I am in no way an expert on this subject but I think I am right when I say that modern gold coins will have a very limited collectors value. Obviously all gold coins have a minimum value based on the gold prices at the time of sale. In the past few years gold prices have risen steadily as I am sure you know. As to the question will they rise in value, who knows? Maybe 200 years down the line they will have attained a higher collectors value, but what will be the gold price be in 200 years?

You mentioned a dealer who was "nasty little piece of work", care to elaborate on that? Always good to hear peoples thoughts/warnings about particular Dealers.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Welcome syorks! You'll find many helpful and knowledgable folk here to sort out your old coin collection! As to the gold, as Gary says, most modern RM issues seem to be more investment than numismatics. Of course, I'm a bit biased as I prefer stuff with a few hundred years wear and tear to it! But I'm afraid I view coins produced in precious metals rather than for circulation, whatever their quality, to be little different from Krugerrands; a means of having a chunk of gold or silver as a hedge to inflation.

Personally? I'd sell the gold and reinvest the money in the tokens (or whatever else takes your interest!) Because in the long term I know I'd get more enjoyment from a collection of pieces I've researched and tracked down over time, whether they are only worth a few quid or thousands than something that has to stay encapsulated and out of reach to keep it shiny!

As for where to sell, that I'm less sure as it's out of my area. You could try messaging Chris (Perkins) the owner of Predecimal and see how much over bullion he'd pay?

[RobJ 0]

Nice introduction.

Welcome to the Forum.

[Red Riley 2]

Hello all. Delighted to find an Internet forum (on any subject) that doesn't look at all abusive. I had almost given up.

I would like to introduce myself - I am sure I am fairly typical, someone who was brought up to love and respect coins and their history, but over the years have never had the time or the money to keep up with the hobby.

I have two collections - it is the second I am looking for some advice on.

FIRSTLY though, I am 55 now. From the age of around 5 to 15 I was very interested in circulation coins, and loved the fact that in those days you could build a collection from the change in your pocket, getting bags of coins from banks, or looking round junk shops. I also inherited a few older coins from my grandfather (not much value but interesting all the same) and bought a few pieces from my pocket money. I wanted to pursue a particular interest in British Tokens, but never had the money. My prize possession is actually a book - Nineteenth Century Token Coinage which sent a shiver down my spine when I recently found it at my mothers.

So, that collection has currently been buried in my mothers wardrobe, where it has been untouched for 40 years. It will be mostly worthless, worn, dirty old pennies from 1860 onwards, but hopefully there will be a few gems... when I get the time to look. I know there is a small suitcase full of unsorted pennies, and the rest is in plastic drawers, I think they called them Bitzaboxes.

SECONDLY, and more of interest at the moment.... in 2005 I had a bit of spare cash and decided to start buying newly minted Gold Proof collections from the Royal Mint. I had always wanted to own a Gold Sovereign. I didn't continue with this unfortunately because of a few problems dealing with the Royal Mint, I found them very unhelpful, so I just got a few sets - the 4 coin Britannia set, similar Sovereign set, a separate sovereign, and a 4x £1 Bridges set.

I think that going for the Gold Proof versions was probably a mistake, as there is more interest in the value of gold rather than the value of proof sets.

Roughly speaking, I paid around £3800 for these, they are currently SELLING for around £6500 from dealers, or worth around £5300 as scrap gold value. Obviously I would hate to see them melted down... but there are so many pitfalls when selling to anyone - the one dealer I have recently dealt with turned out to be a nasty little piece of work... better not say too much !

And there are the problems of posting, getting the money etc etc. It is almost easier to just take them to a scrap gold dealer and get the cash locally, or just leave them locked away. Before anyone mentions EBay... I am tempted but am put off by the amount of cons (not coins) on the site, as I see members have rightly highlighted here. I have never dealt with EBay, but have used PayPal for a couple of transactions and I was shocked when a small payment to a charity went wrong and Pay Pal e.mailed me and said "Don't bother us with this, we don't want to know", and similarly ignored the charity who had just entered into a contract with Pay Pal. They then deleted my account. So obviously I won't be trusting them again !

But I am also thinking this. I know a lot of Gold bullion coins are getting melted down. If people are being tempted to let Proof sets go this way, then I wonder just how many of these limited edition sets will be left in future years. Will their scarcity add to their value ? Anyone have any knowledge of the extent to which Gold proof coins are disappearing ?

Anyway I hope I haven't bored you all. I will keep reading the forum and may hopefully be able to help in the future.

Hi syorks, welcome to the forum. Anything on this subject should begin 'speaking personally...' and so speaking personally, I doubt that sufficient will be melted down to affect the price. I have sold gold coins on e-bay and have found that there are so many sellers and buyers that the market price is almost always met and to be honest I have never encountered problems with either e-bay or paypal. You should make sure that all coins are sent out special delivery and you get cleared funds before sending them. You may find that some buyers are overseas and this may cause a problem with the maximum postal insurance available. Also make sure that the territory they are in has a (comparatively!) good reputation for honesty e.g. USA, Australia, Western Europe; some people say Canada has caused problems and definitely don't sell to China or Russia!

[Peckris 579]

Hello all. Delighted to find an Internet forum (on any subject) that doesn't look at all abusive. I had almost given up.

I would like to introduce myself - I am sure I am fairly typical, someone who was brought up to love and respect coins and their history, but over the years have never had the time or the money to keep up with the hobby.

I have two collections - it is the second I am looking for some advice on.

FIRSTLY though, I am 55 now. From the age of around 5 to 15 I was very interested in circulation coins, and loved the fact that in those days you could build a collection from the change in your pocket, getting bags of coins from banks, or looking round junk shops. I also inherited a few older coins from my grandfather (not much value but interesting all the same) and bought a few pieces from my pocket money. I wanted to pursue a particular interest in British Tokens, but never had the money. My prize possession is actually a book - Nineteenth Century Token Coinage which sent a shiver down my spine when I recently found it at my mothers.

So, that collection has currently been buried in my mothers wardrobe, where it has been untouched for 40 years. It will be mostly worthless, worn, dirty old pennies from 1860 onwards, but hopefully there will be a few gems... when I get the time to look. I know there is a small suitcase full of unsorted pennies, and the rest is in plastic drawers, I think they called them Bitzaboxes.

SECONDLY, and more of interest at the moment.... in 2005 I had a bit of spare cash and decided to start buying newly minted Gold Proof collections from the Royal Mint. I had always wanted to own a Gold Sovereign. I didn't continue with this unfortunately because of a few problems dealing with the Royal Mint, I found them very unhelpful, so I just got a few sets - the 4 coin Britannia set, similar Sovereign set, a separate sovereign, and a 4x £1 Bridges set.

I think that going for the Gold Proof versions was probably a mistake, as there is more interest in the value of gold rather than the value of proof sets.

Roughly speaking, I paid around £3800 for these, they are currently SELLING for around £6500 from dealers, or worth around £5300 as scrap gold value. Obviously I would hate to see them melted down... but there are so many pitfalls when selling to anyone - the one dealer I have recently dealt with turned out to be a nasty little piece of work... better not say too much !

And there are the problems of posting, getting the money etc etc. It is almost easier to just take them to a scrap gold dealer and get the cash locally, or just leave them locked away. Before anyone mentions EBay... I am tempted but am put off by the amount of cons (not coins) on the site, as I see members have rightly highlighted here. I have never dealt with EBay, but have used PayPal for a couple of transactions and I was shocked when a small payment to a charity went wrong and Pay Pal e.mailed me and said "Don't bother us with this, we don't want to know", and similarly ignored the charity who had just entered into a contract with Pay Pal. They then deleted my account. So obviously I won't be trusting them again !

But I am also thinking this. I know a lot of Gold bullion coins are getting melted down. If people are being tempted to let Proof sets go this way, then I wonder just how many of these limited edition sets will be left in future years. Will their scarcity add to their value ? Anyone have any knowledge of the extent to which Gold proof coins are disappearing ?

Anyway I hope I haven't bored you all. I will keep reading the forum and may hopefully be able to help in the future.

You've had some welcomes and advice syorks, so let me add to both! Welcome to the forums

I personally wouldn't touch modern RM Issues with a barge pole as they are such a drag on the market when you come to sell. Having said that, you struck lucky by choosing gold and buying before the mad recent increases, so your investment has turned out well. Nice work!

I wouldn't care to speculate on the attitudes of collectors choosing to have their scarce proofs melted down : you could guess right, or wrong, and no-one can predict, or we'd all be millionaires! If you like your sets, keep them and they will prove good in the long run. But if you want to cash in, that would be cool too as there is a whole world of old coins out there, just waiting for you!! But, forget dealer prices - the only way you might get close to that is by selling on eBay, and that' a chancy business. Whereas a dealer would pay you between half to three-quarters their selling price, depending how likely he is to make a quick sale.

[syorks 0]

Thanks for the messages ! I will digest what has been said and reply later. Thanks again.

[syorks 0]

Thanks for the messages ! I will digest what has been said and reply later. Thanks again.

Hello again - sorry for the delay, short of time at the moment.

So, as I said, thanks for the replies. As much as I would like to name the coin dealer I had problems with, I had better not rake the whole thing up again. Lets just say he is a major gold coin dealer who thinks an awful lot of himself.

I ordered from his companies web site, rang to check that I had got the full details correct, ie that the Gold coin came with a Royal mint certificate of authenticity, as was stated. The member of staff checked with the great man, and replied in the positive.... and then the coin turned up with no certificate. The arguments went on for months - he wanted an extra £20 for the cert. He refused to talk to me, "he doesn't deal with customers" was always the response. His staff seem terrified to bother him. I involved Consumer Direct, Trading Standards in my home town and his local office, the advice was always that I was 100 per cent correct and I should take him to the small claims court. I involved the BNTA... who also agreed with me, it went to their 3 monthly meeting, they found in my favour.... and he still refused to give in. I even offered to give the £20 to a charity of the BNTA's choice or pay £10 to resolve the matter - BUT NO ! Eventually another coin dealer gave me a certificate to save bringing the BNTA into disrepute, and the dealer in question is no longer a member, although on his website he still has a page dedicated to the BNTA, but says he was a member until 2008.

Obviously from the comments about Gold proof sets, I will get just as much selling for the Gold value at the moment. I will have to have a think about it. I wouldn't try Ebay for the simple reason that I know that if there is a problem, PayPal don't like talking to customers either. Talk later.

[TomGoodheart 402]

I think I can guess who you mean. Sad when a perfectly simple transaction becomes an issue. And did you try messaging Chris P about the gold? Might be worth a try.

[syorks 0]

I think I can guess who you mean. Sad when a perfectly simple transaction becomes an issue. And did you try messaging Chris P about the gold? Might be worth a try.

Thanks Tom, I have just e.mailed CP and one other dealer who has been recommended. If/when I get replies I will make a decision as to what to do. Don't fancy leaving them till I'm a gonner, the wife will probably spend them at the shops.

[Accumulator 52]

I think I can guess who you mean. Sad when a perfectly simple transaction becomes an issue. And did you try messaging Chris P about the gold? Might be worth a try.

Thanks Tom, I have just e.mailed CP and one other dealer who has been recommended. If/when I get replies I will make a decision as to what to do. Don't fancy leaving them till I'm a gonner, the wife will probably spend them at the shops.

I can also image which gentleman you refer to.

This is my view:

Modern gold coins are not of great interest to most coin collectors so I wouldn't expect coin dealers to be able to offer what you want... but I may be wrong so please try. Instead such coins are generally acquired by people looking for an extremely convenient way to invest into gold as a commodity, while providing an element of additional interest in that they appeal to their natural instinct to form and covet a collection of attractive valuable possessions. There's the added advantage, of course, that profits from the sale of such UK gold is exempt from Capital Gains Tax. Putting these factors together has created an extremely tradeable commodity which, for the most part, sits outside the coin collector's world. I should also point out that as they fetch a premium over pure bullion value they are unlikely to be melted down.

Like it or loathe it, the greatest market today for such a commodity is eBay. You can literally track the day's gold price by the bidding on such coins and it is almost unheard of for one to slip through at below bullion value. Generally they maintain a healthy premium above this, and certainly more than a dealer could sensibly offer. This is a peculiarity of gold on eBay and doesn't apply to other coins.

Personally I have bought many gold coins and even sold a few without any problem to date, though I realise there's always a first time! The choice is yours, but there's no better marketplace for gold than eBay that I know of.

[Red Riley 2]

Like it or loathe it, the greatest market today for such a commodity is eBay. You can literally track the day's gold price by the bidding on such coins and it is almost unheard of for one to slip through at below bullion value. Generally they maintain a healthy premium above this, and certainly more than a dealer could sensibly offer. This is a peculiarity of gold on eBay and doesn't apply to other coins.

Personally I have bought many gold coins and even sold a few without any problem to date, though I realise there's always a first time! The choice is yours, but there's no better marketplace for gold than eBay that I know of.

I would echo that several lots sold, a predictable price obtained and no obvious problems.

[syorks 0]

Thanks again for the comments. As I have said, I don't want to do business through Pay Pal - this is a bit of the e.mail they sent me when a transaction failed

Please do not contact PayPal because this is entirely an issue between the account holder and their bank.

.... and they went on to delete my account and refuse to talk to me. My bank had not had any request from them. So if a few thousand £££ went missing, I wouldn't like to be relying on them.

Anyway, I have contacted a few coin dealers, done the rounds of every "buy Gold" link I can find, and today I have started selling to a local pawnbroker, who has offered the top price of anyone, it's cash, and I can easily deliver, so doing it in four stages over the next few weeks. He claims he will be melting down... I doubt it myself, but I am happy for him to profit however he does it. I will make £2000 profit, and I have learned a valuable lesson.

Now hopefully I will get the time to have a better look around this site !

[Gary 7]

Thanks again for the comments.

Anyway, I have contacted a few coin dealers, done the rounds of every "buy Gold" link I can find, and today I have started selling to a local pawnbroker, who has offered the top price of anyone, it's cash, and I can easily deliver, so doing it in four stages over the next few weeks. He claims he will be melting down... I doubt it myself, but I am happy for him to profit however he does it. I will make £2000 profit, and I have learned a valuable lesson.

Now hopefully I will get the time to have a better look around this site !

£2000 profit sounds good to me and no worrys about them getting lost in the post, even better!

Edited February 21, 2011 by Gary

[Chris Perkins 228]

Did I reply to you? I don't remember gold sets recently.

I must admit that I don't get too excited when I hear about modern gold (oh, and even though proofs are rarer...so what, melt the buggers down, they will always exist in larger numbers than there are serious collectors of them) as gold is bloody expensive, ties a lot of cash up and the profit margin is small in the short term. With gold you can't keep the money turning over (for a decent return) like with collectable coins where it is possible to regularly make 20 - 40% profit, rather than 5-10% with gold.

Anyway, looks like you've sold them! Lucky the price of gold shot up.

And welcome to the forum.

[syorks 0]

Did I reply to you? I don't remember gold sets recently.

Yes Chris, you replied within minutes of me contacting you, thanks.

Although I am very happy with the profit I am making... I have had my eyes opened as to what goes on in Pawnbroker shops. Talk about Fagin and his band of thieves ! Walking out with £1500 cash in my pocket was a bit scary, and I have two bigger deals to do yet.