1919KN Penny

[argentumandcoins 70]

And an Email from rendel Ingram on the Subjekt

Not really. Its highly unlikely to be a fake. Pennies got so much circulation so can  weigh as little as 8.5g.

And the Guy who bought it is a dealer

Dave, you should just take it back.

If the coin is a genuine mint issue (and I am 99% certain it is from the pics) it must be on a smaller blank. That being the case it must be a mint error, possibly as Scott suggested on a Foreign blank. That means you would be sitting on a rarity of considerable value.

I don't have the Colin Adams Penny sale catalogue (I bet Rob does), but I do recall he sold a QEII penny around the 1964 date on a smaller blank and it made a hefty hammer price.

Swallow your pride and think with your head not your heart!

[azda 979]

To Be honest John i have been thinking about doing that. It did sell quite cheaply and basically the buyer thinks because ut was cheap that its an automatic forgery, what chreses me off though is he's used Michael Goubys good name and lied about what Muchral had said which in turn just proves to me that he's scared of the coin, and the fact he's the only one standing up shouting fake which is rather

Annoying. I've also Spike with a Guy called Richard Sessions, apparently hr has quite a Penny Collection to, i shoeed him the pictures and he had No problem with them Nor had he heard of any fakes. I do believe the coin is genuine but sold cheap due to the REV clean

[azda 979]

And the Email from Richard Sessions

Your 1919KN is certainly not as wide as it should be. Mine has quite a thick collar, especially the obverse (scans attached). Could yours have been struck on a different sized blank ? Although I can’t think what size might have been used. If someone was making a forgery they would surely go to the trouble of using the correct sized piece of metal. I think that if I’d seen the pictures of the penny being sold I’d probably have steered clear.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Dave, you should just take it back.

Swallow your pride and think with your head not your heart!

I think you should take that advice mate.

[RLC35 288]

I also think that is good advice. That will take care of an issue that is really bothering you.(and I can see why!)

Good Luck,

[Peckris 579]

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

It had crossed my mind that Kings Norton may have been producing for other countries at that time on smaller blanks.

I suppose that Michael is right and the RM would have to be the first port of call.

Don't bother going to the RM unless they are expert on the Kings Norton output. Kings Norton produced their own blanks - not only that but, according to Freeman, they supplied blanks to the RM from 1912 - 1919, which I guess is why you sometimes see 'red pennies' that aren't 1918/19KN. The question is, who else did they do business for, and could a blank from another of their contract jobs have got mixed up with the RM sub-contract? Or, maybe it was just a duff item that slipped through their inspectors (or maybe they had RM inspectors on site who dozed off late Friday afternoon).

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

[Colin G. 147]

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

That is one thing where they have got it right, you have to prove it got to him, he will have to prove it got back to you I believe. That's why agree about the refund but do not issue it until the ocin is returned. Make sure you also start a dispute to get your fees back.

[argentumandcoins 70]

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

It had crossed my mind that Kings Norton may have been producing for other countries at that time on smaller blanks.

I suppose that Michael is right and the RM would have to be the first port of call.

Don't bother going to the RM unless they are expert on the Kings Norton output. Kings Norton produced their own blanks - not only that but, according to Freeman, they supplied blanks to the RM from 1912 - 1919, which I guess is why you sometimes see 'red pennies' that aren't 1918/19KN. The question is, who else did they do business for, and could a blank from another of their contract jobs have got mixed up with the RM sub-contract? Or, maybe it was just a duff item that slipped through their inspectors (or maybe they had RM inspectors on site who dozed off late Friday afternoon).

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

My reasoning was that the Royal Mint supplied the dies and should at least confirm the use of a correct die, negating the forgery issue? With Dave being a Scotsman I thought he would rather take the free examination than pay Robert £30

[azda 979]

Someone mention free? I'd Pay the guy 30 quid just to prove this eBay numpty wrong

[azda 979]

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

It had crossed my mind that Kings Norton may have been producing for other countries at that time on smaller blanks.

I suppose that Michael is right and the RM would have to be the first port of call.

Don't bother going to the RM unless they are expert on the Kings Norton output. Kings Norton produced their own blanks - not only that but, according to Freeman, they supplied blanks to the RM from 1912 - 1919, which I guess is why you sometimes see 'red pennies' that aren't 1918/19KN. The question is, who else did they do business for, and could a blank from another of their contract jobs have got mixed up with the RM sub-contract? Or, maybe it was just a duff item that slipped through their inspectors (or maybe they had RM inspectors on site who dozed off late Friday afternoon).

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

My reasoning was that the Royal Mint supplied the dies and should at least confirm the use of a correct die, negating the forgery issue? With Dave being a Scotsman I thought he would rather take the free examination than pay Robert £30

Ok so he's replied and said if i get the coin authenticated then he'll pay double what it sold for, so i have said that if thats the case then he should also pay for authentication. Whats the name of this guy John who does this authentication work, and perhaps some contact details if possible. PM me if you don't want to hand them out here.

[argentumandcoins 70]

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

It had crossed my mind that Kings Norton may have been producing for other countries at that time on smaller blanks.

I suppose that Michael is right and the RM would have to be the first port of call.

Don't bother going to the RM unless they are expert on the Kings Norton output. Kings Norton produced their own blanks - not only that but, according to Freeman, they supplied blanks to the RM from 1912 - 1919, which I guess is why you sometimes see 'red pennies' that aren't 1918/19KN. The question is, who else did they do business for, and could a blank from another of their contract jobs have got mixed up with the RM sub-contract? Or, maybe it was just a duff item that slipped through their inspectors (or maybe they had RM inspectors on site who dozed off late Friday afternoon).

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

My reasoning was that the Royal Mint supplied the dies and should at least confirm the use of a correct die, negating the forgery issue? With Dave being a Scotsman I thought he would rather take the free examination than pay Robert £30

Ok so he's replied and said if i get the coin authenticated then he'll pay double what it sold for, so i have said that if thats the case then he should also pay for authentication. Whats the name of this guy John who does this authentication work, and perhaps some contact details if possible. PM me if you don't want to hand them out here.

400 posted a link to his site on the previous page Dave. His name is Robert Matthews and he does a comprehensive report for you together with digital ID pics of the coin in question.

[azda 979]

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

where did the KN mint get the flans from? because some countries were using coins of similar size but sometimes slightly smaller (france for example)

It had crossed my mind that Kings Norton may have been producing for other countries at that time on smaller blanks.

I suppose that Michael is right and the RM would have to be the first port of call.

Don't bother going to the RM unless they are expert on the Kings Norton output. Kings Norton produced their own blanks - not only that but, according to Freeman, they supplied blanks to the RM from 1912 - 1919, which I guess is why you sometimes see 'red pennies' that aren't 1918/19KN. The question is, who else did they do business for, and could a blank from another of their contract jobs have got mixed up with the RM sub-contract? Or, maybe it was just a duff item that slipped through their inspectors (or maybe they had RM inspectors on site who dozed off late Friday afternoon).

Either way, I agree with those who say 'take it back' for a refund (unless of course, he sends it uninsured and "you don't receive it" .. now there's a thought!)

My reasoning was that the Royal Mint supplied the dies and should at least confirm the use of a correct die, negating the forgery issue? With Dave being a Scotsman I thought he would rather take the free examination than pay Robert £30

Ok so he's replied and said if i get the coin authenticated then he'll pay double what it sold for, so i have said that if thats the case then he should also pay for authentication. Whats the name of this guy John who does this authentication work, and perhaps some contact details if possible. PM me if you don't want to hand them out here.

400 posted a link to his site on the previous page Dave. His name is Robert Matthews and he does a comprehensive report for you together with digital ID pics of the coin in question.

Thanks John, will send an email or quick phone call, just out of interest, how long does the process take? Just had a look and cannot see his email address, it says contact webmaster but i don't have an email client such as outlook etc so if you have his direct email could you PM me with it.

Edited February 9, 2011 by azda

[scott 144]

i have a 1913 on a 1912H blank has the same greenish colour as worn 12H

if they made thier own that might explain it.

[Peckris 579]

i have a 1913 on a 1912H blank has the same greenish colour as worn 12H

if they made thier own that might explain it.

Freeman only mentions a Kings Norton contract to supply blanks with the RM - he said nothing about The Birmingham Mint (Heatons).

[azda 979]

Just wanted to revive this a little. I received a rim picture from the buyer, opinions please.

[Rob 3,152]

Just wanted to revive this a little. I received a rim picture from the buyer, opinions please.

Looks machined to me.

[argentumandcoins 70]

Tool marks Dave. Either an alteration post production or tool marks from a length of metal which was machined to roughly the correct diameter to produce blanks for forgeries from. Looks post production to me though.

[azda 979]

So what would have Bern done pist production John to get the toolong Marks? I did a ring test before i sent it off and it was ok, can we say it could still be genuine with post production marks?

[SionGilbey 1]

My grandmother was worse than me lol. The question is, whats the point if eBay having a No returns button if people dispute something, its pointless

My grandma's saying was "You step on my toe, I'll stamp on your neck!

She was a collector too (I received a Co-Op bag of 200 pre-decimal pennies she'd been chucking in there before D-Day when I started collecting - she wasn't around to see it though )

[argentumandcoins 70]

So what would have Bern done pist production John to get the toolong Marks? I did a ring test before i sent it off and it was ok, can we say it could still be genuine with post production marks?

Either turned on a lathe to skim the edge or turned against a grinder. Marks look uniform so my guess would be the former. Yes, if post production it would definitely be genuine and that would account for the diameter and weigfht difference.

[azda 979]

Well that makes me happier, spoke to him this morning and going to do what was suggested.

[Peckris 579]

So what would have Bern done pist production John to get the toolong

I'm not too up on my Korean, Dave. Do you have a translation?

[Accumulator 52]

So what would have Bern done pist production John to get the toolong

I'm not too up on my Korean, Dave. Do you have a translation?

Dave... I know you sent that from your iPhone because I get exactly the same problem. I type 'been' and unless I'm careful the predictive text turns it into 'Bern'. Why on earth it should have the alternative spelling of the capital of Switzerland as a default for a common English word I have no idea! The rest of the Korean is down to you though!

[azda 979]

Lol, its got a bloody mind of its own this Thing

[Rob 3,152]

Lol, its got a bloody mind of its own this Thing

Shouldn't that be thong.