Victoria Token?

[palves 0]

Hi guys,

Got this one one ebay for 99cents... Any suggestion?

Weight: 1.7g

Size: 19mm

Metal: ??

[SionGilbey 1]

Hmm... is the observe a Prince of Wales model half Sov?

[SionGilbey 1]

I recognise the bird as well from a 15 ruble coin (Russia).

[SionGilbey 1]

Sorry for the triple post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_the_Russian_Empire

That's your bird.

[Chris Perkins 228]

It's a German made brass Jeton isn't it? I don't quite know the significance of the double headed eagle (apart from the obvious fact that Victoria was related to most other European Royal familes).

[SionGilbey 1]

It's a German made brass Jeton isn't it? I don't quite know the significance of the double headed eagle (apart from the obvious fact that Victoria was related to most other European Royal familes).

The double headed eagle with the shield and various pieces of treasure is the Russian coat of arms.

Could it be Russian made?

I am not knowledgeable about Jetons.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Other countries have used a double headed eagle too. I can't find an example that looks just like the reverse.

[Colin G. 147]

Other countries have used a double headed eagle too. I can't find an example that looks just like the reverse.

The obverse is from the dies for the "To Hanover" tokens, so it will be a gaming counter of some sort. I have seen that reverse design in Spiel Marke before.....I think

[scott 144]

austria used it, serbia used it, might be looking at german states as well

[azda 979]

I think its more of German origin due to the fact it was mainly Germany that made these model tokens and the close affinity that the Royal family had with Germany during that period. So for me (a guess so far) would be a gaming token or a model coin of some sorts, the Austrians also used the double eagle. If you look at the 20 Austrian Hungarian Forint around 1880s-1900s thee use the double headed eagle, those are also gold.

Edited February 17, 2011 by azda

[Peckris 579]

British monarchs were also Electors of Hanover since George I, but Victoria couldn't be, as a female. Is the double-eagle of Hanoverian origin by any chance?

[azda 979]

British monarchs were also Electors of Hanover since George I, but Victoria couldn't be, as a female. Is the double-eagle of Hanoverian origin by any chance?

I think most of the German stuff was the single headed eagle looking right, it's the Austrian Forint 10 and 20s in Gold that have the double headed Eagles such as this

Edited February 17, 2011 by azda

[SionGilbey 1]

The seemingly changing factor is the banner it carries.

On the coin it is a spotty banner, while on the Russian coat of arms it's a man on horseback.

If we research the origins of the flag and it's significance we could probably nail it's origin.

[palves 0]

Thanks for the help! I have spent a couple of hours looking into eagles and birds, from Austria, germany... still did not manage to find this exact one.

But I think we all agree that is play money and brass...

PA

[josie 8]

There is a documentary,the host or presenter is a female journalist shown in tv in the past,they have discuss the topic of eagle from roman time.

Some are facing left and right,east and west,some in bearer,coin,flag etc,just a comment.

[SionGilbey 1]

The double headed eagle is very common.

They are basically the same apart from the banner they carry and the design.

Some are entirely one colour.

[josie 8]

We will just see when that kind of eagle first appear in coins,in text or in images,in flags etc further studies?.

I thought that it is a eastern ........ ...... and an western ..... ..... empire?

Any graven images on top of the pole or flag?just a comment.

[Peckris 579]

We will just see when that kind of eagle first appear in coins,in text or in images,in flags etc further studies?.

I thought that it is a eastern ........ ...... and an western ..... ..... empire?

Any graven images on top of the pole or flag?just a comment.

The earliest I have seen is the reverse of a Philip II tetradrachm, but I'm not sure exactly what his dates are. I'm sure they must go back to Classical Greece at least?

[josie 8]

We will just see when that kind of eagle first appear in coins,in text or in images,in flags etc further studies?.

I thought that it is a eastern ........ ...... and an western ..... ..... empire?

Any graven images on top of the pole or flag?just a comment.

The earliest I have seen is the reverse of a Philip II tetradrachm, but I'm not sure exactly what his dates are. I'm sure they must go back to Classical Greece at least?

Time frame from greek to roman to byzantine to 410AD so on.

Nice though two headed eagle landed what is on the top of there head?just a comment.

Just posting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle

Edited February 19, 2011 by josie

[SionGilbey 1]

josie I saw that the other day - however through all the different coats of arms I couldn't find a banner match!

[josie 8]

josie I saw that the other day - however through all the different coats of arms I couldn't find a banner match!

Thanks for the reply SG.

Just thinking the Chin-rho first on shield then to labarum maybe banner today or bearer then to coin the summation of it or commomeration,if there is no banner,just accept it that there is no banner,but I will keep in mind,diiferent kind first 2HE afloat,then some with baton,some with different sword,some with globe and other with other object above,interesting image though.just a comment.

[syorks 0]

Just found this - not a lot of help...

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Coin-Collecting-2297/2010/2/Identifying-coin.htm

[SionGilbey 1]

Just found this - not a lot of help...

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Coin-Collecting-2297/2010/2/Identifying-coin.htm

That's the coin alright but the "expert" doesn't seem to know what they are on about, claiming the clearly labelled "VICTORIA QUEEN OF GREAT BRITAIN" was not Victoria and it was a Russian Kopek.

Edited February 22, 2011 by SionGilbey

[SionGilbey 1]

Found some more on it:

Exact match:

Same eagle different text on Vic.

eBay link