Slabbed values

[Colin G. 147]

I've just rushed down to the Forum cellar, and the box labelled "The BU/UNC/lustre argument" has got 3 loose nails in it's lid and is shaking.

It can't be about to escape again can it

[azda 979]

If anyone has 3 nails could they rush over to 400s House , in the cellar there's a box, Standing beside that box is a shady man, just push him into the box and knock those 3 nails in please

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

I think the frustration lies between the UNC price and BU price, if both coins were the same and 1 described UNC and the other BU then thats where you might See the difference, so iny opinion, clarification is needed

Don't be frustrated, the prices are exactly what it says on the cover of the book, it's a guide, it's not definitive, because if you could somehow enter the same coin in an auction once a month for a year, it would sell for a different price everytime, dependent on who wanted it/was bidding.

What the Spink book should be called is; " a wild stab in the dark at what a coin could be worth" but that doesn't sound very professional does it, no-one is going to pay £x for that.

High quality pennies seem to be all the rage, even so, £180 is hard to believe, bit mad, that.

Off the scale in fact...

[Colin G. 147]

If anyone has 3 nails could they rush over to 400s House , in the cellar there's a box, Standing beside that box is a shady man, just push him into the box and knock those 3 nails in please

See what I mean about differences of opinion!!

I agree that clarification could help, but it won't happen anytime soon and would possibly take some of the fun out of it!!

Edited February 22, 2011 by Colin G.

[azda 979]

It is a guide 400, but dealers and everyone Else is using

That Guide and expecting the same cash As spink says its worth unfortunately

[Accumulator 52]

I very much agree that any guide is just that, and no more than a suggestion of what one might pay, on average, for a particular coin. In the case of rare or expensive coins the number of sales are so few that a guide becomes less useful and it will come down much more to who really wants it on the day. The surprise here is that a relatively common coin should depart so far from the norm.

Clearly the 'slab factor' is beginning to make a significant difference. I notice that the March London Coins auction has a separate section only for slabbed coins. Interestingly I had a little look through a few penny collections on the NGS site and a fair number of collectors (at least one of whom frequents this forum) are clearly going down that avenue for their entire collections. I certainly don't wish to re-open a debate that, from the archive, I see has been well covered before but I'm just not sure I could live with all my coins in slabs. But, then again, maybe I could?

[Red Riley 2]

It is a guide 400, but dealers and everyone Else is using

That Guide and expecting the same cash As spink says its worth unfortunately

Strangely neither I nor many of the other dealers that I speak to use Spink for pricing purposes. What I do use it for is to check the price of one coin against another e.g. in my opinion a 1916 half crown in EF is worth £x; I have just acquired a 1917 in similar condition, will this be worth more, the same, or less? The actual prices, I tend to ignore.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Red Riley

[Colin G. 147]

It is a guide 400, but dealers and everyone Else is using

That Guide and expecting the same cash As spink says its worth unfortunately

Strangely neither I nor many of the other dealers that I speak to use Spink for pricing purposes. What I do use it for is to check the price of one coin against another e.g. in my opinion a 1916 half crown in EF is worth £x; I have just acquired a 1917 in similar condition, will this be worth more, the same, or less? The actual prices, I tend to ignore.

I would totally agree, I can not remember the last time I priced something based on Spink values. I have bought 1 or 2 hammered farthings on that basis, but they were coins I was willing to buy anyway, so it was just a double check that I was not way off the mark, and because the sale needed to be quick!!

[TomGoodheart 403]

Well, to be honest it doesn't surprise me that London Coins have done that. It's when other auction houses bother I shall start to worry! And I have to say that modern Cu/Bronze is something that I can see some justification for protecting in a slab because it can tarnish or stain to its detriment. Whereas I imagine many would agree with me that silver can improve considerably with some toning.

As to the prices, well, I'm sure we've all seen examples of prices going well beyond what might be considered sensible when a couple of bidders are really keen. And I'm not talking about slabbed coins either.

I suppose my only concern is if we start to see signs that people are buying the slab (and slabbed grade) rather than relying on their own judgement/knowledge/experience to rate a coin. Now of course, we all rely to a certain extent on others. Books, articles, auction catalogues and the exchange of ideas and facts with others are invaluble tools to learning the hobby.

But I can't be the only one here that has seen a coin described as 'finest known' or similar. Or 'EF' for issue, or similar guff for that matter. And if I'd paid out good money every time .. well, I'd have none left I imagine and so tend to take such claims with a pinch of salt unless there is history, provenance and fact to back up such a claim.

And what am I getting at here? That slab grading is not an exact science. It's done by blokes (and presumably lasses) like us. And consequently a grade is likely to be subject to the same experiential benchmarks that we all have to use: ie we compare with what we've seen before. And just as possibly none of us here will agree a grade to the point on a /100 scale, so I imagine with slabbers. Stick a coin under the noses of a CGS, NGC, PGCS and see what you get. Uniformity? I doubt it.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Wise words Tom.

I'd like to propose a new scale;

Shite/ Shite but of varietal interest/ gap filler / shame, could have been a nice coin/ I want it

Does it have to be more complicated than that ?

[azda 979]

If i could get a UNC for shite I'd Be eating allbran daily

[ski 1]

i can talk shite all day.......so send me your unc/bu coins......TA.

[ski 1]

i wonder if the slab made any difference here, more of another pointer at the inflationary prices collectors seem to pay for pennies. all penny collectors now........STAY AWAY FROM FLORINS.........thank you

[declanwmagee 122]

In short - you can always find a better UNC

[Accumulator 52]

In short - you can always find a better UNC

Not if that UNC has just been graded MS70

[VickySilver 836]

I think I would be rather shocked to see an MS70 Bunhead (at least graded by PCGS). Not sure if I have ever seen better than a "66". Post your 67 and aboves here!

[Peckris 579]

this years spink quotes £55 for UNC and spink also quote that UNC means with full lustre

I have also noticed this quote in Spink, but surely if a coin is UNC whether full lustre or not it merits UNC price. If a coin is toned, does that mean Spink says its EF? Not getting that part at all. Also how many bunheads have we seen in what spink would then regard as ture UNC which would mean with full lustre. Sorry but i must laugh at that quote

Yes Derek, but surely everything UNC with Full lustre would surely Be BU then if it has FULL lustre?

I Hope you understand what i mean.

I think the frustration lies between the UNC price and BU price, if both coins were the same and 1 described UNC and the other BU then thats where you might See the difference, so iny opinion, clarification is needed

It's quite simple I believe. Spink don't list BU as a grade, but for BRONZE COINS ONLY they make the distinction that when they list a price, it's for UNC + FULL LUSTRE, hence the footnote. For all other coins, gold, silver, copper - UNC simply means UNC, and lustre is somewhat irrespective. Though Spink might regard any coin with only part lustre, as AUNC.

However, beautifully toned silver coins, that have no wear, are something else again. They have always been rated higher than untoned specimens, so for those, you would expect a premium over Spink's price.

Sorry, did I say it was simple?

[Cerbera100 0]

It is a guide 400, but dealers and everyone Else is using

That Guide and expecting the same cash As spink says its worth unfortunately

True - but from personal experience, as a rough guide I knock 20% off the Spink price when I'm looking to buy, and up to 40% off when I'm looking to sell (reserve/starting price of course!)...

Equally, you get the anomolies as Derek (I think!) mentioned - a prime example being the 1940 Single Exergue line penny... when was the last time I saw one of these sell for 'only' £40?!

[azda 979]

It is a guide 400, but dealers and everyone Else is using

That Guide and expecting the same cash As spink says its worth unfortunately

a prime example being the 1940 Single Exergue line penny... when was the last time I saw one of these sell for 'only' £40?!

Last year, when i bought one from Colin Cookes for 30 quid in BU....oooh did i say BU, maybe its UNC, i don't know any more

[ski 1]

nice penny...........could be unc, maybe bu.......maybe bunc .

its a very nice coin, i would have thought its desireability to add it to your collection is what made you part with your cash, not the title/grade.

would you have still bought it, if it was graded aunc?

[azda 979]

With the Look of it ski i'd still have paid 30 quid, i'd pay it again for another of same quality, definately cheap even by last years standards. Should maybe get it slabbed and add 200 quid to its value

Just thought i'd mention ski, bu and bunc are both the same grade

Edited February 23, 2011 by azda

[Chris Perkins 228]

I believe it was actually the Royal Mint that coined the term 'BU'....without really meaning to. In the 80s their annual sets of coins in folders were suddenly marketed as 'Brilliant Uncirculated' and that caught on to mean an UNC coin with full lutre.

[Cerbera100 0]

Very nice! Mine was about the same amount - not quite that condition, but was a couple of years ago... the last three I've seen sell have all been over the £60 mark, with one as high as £80 plus premium (Workman Part 1 - L109)!

I did pick up a F-VF one from a local antique shop for only 20p though... and a 1946 ONE' for 20p... quite a profitable ten minutes!

[azda 979]

Yes, i saw the Price of the workman sale and thought, profeeeeeet already lol. Might get it slabbed, but with pcgs As CGS are Way to harsh in My opinion

[ski 1]

Just thought i'd mention ski, bu and bunc are both the same grade

as if i didnt know but the point i was making was......does it really matter!!