World Coin Pricing Guide...NGC

[azda 979]

Azda, out of curiosity, what do you thing an average brown to red-brown but technically uncirculated (ie no wear other than perhaps some bag contact) 1902 LT coin should go for?

I daresay that price is near spot-on IMO...

I suppose its all down to demand and eye appeal Vicky, i reckon minimum should be around the 100 GBP mark and with lustre etc heading towards the 150 + mark, as i said its more to do with eye appeal. Martin Platts 1868 penny he sold this week, bought from the St James auction for 550 GBP has a Spink price guide of 925 in UNC, he said it was UNC, St James sold it as nUNC and it sold for 1120 GBP, 195 over spinks guide, so its all about eye appeal IMO

[Peckris 579]

Isn't the only difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom...the addition of Northern Ireland? The way I am told it works is:

Great Britain includes: 1) England, Wales, and Scotland

United Kingdom includes: 2) England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

I'm not trying to start an argument here and should perhaps decline to answer your question as others have done, as this is a bit of a touchy subject, but the above is not correct. The United Kingdom is the combination of the two kingdoms of England and Scotland and was created in c.1707. The English portion consisted of England and its two provinces of Wales and Ireland which had been acquired by England sometime after the Norman invasion but before 1707. Both are geographical areas and were never counties as they consisted of many independent tribes, much as England had been prior to the Norman conquest. Today neither have parliaments, rather regional assemblies.

Further correction. Wales for centuries has not been a 'province' but a 'Principality'. (Viz., the Prince of Wales). I'm not sure what Ireland's status was in 1707, but Northern Ireland has certainly been a province since the formation of the Irish Free State. The status of the government of N Ireland has changed several times : the parliament at Stormont was suspended in the 1970s during 'the Troubles' and direct rule from Westminster was imposed. But now government has been reintroduced from Stormont with direct elections.

The British Isles includes the whole of Ireland (merely a geographical entity). Britain refers to England, Scotland, Wales and the islands. Great Britain refers to the same with the addition of N. Ireland.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Isn't the only difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom...the addition of Northern Ireland? The way I am told it works is:

Great Britain includes: 1) England, Wales, and Scotland

United Kingdom includes: 2) England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

I'm not trying to start an argument here and should perhaps decline to answer your question as others have done, as this is a bit of a touchy subject, but the above is not correct. The United Kingdom is the combination of the two kingdoms of England and Scotland and was created in c.1707. The English portion consisted of England and its two provinces of Wales and Ireland which had been acquired by England sometime after the Norman invasion but before 1707. Both are geographical areas and were never counties as they consisted of many independent tribes, much as England had been prior to the Norman conquest. Today neither have parliaments, rather regional assemblies.

Further correction. Wales for centuries has not been a 'province' but a 'Principality'. (Viz., the Prince of Wales). I'm not sure what Ireland's status was in 1707, but Northern Ireland has certainly been a province since the formation of the Irish Free State. The status of the government of N Ireland has changed several times : the parliament at Stormont was suspended in the 1970s during 'the Troubles' and direct rule from Westminster was imposed. But now government has been reintroduced from Stormont with direct elections.

The British Isles includes the whole of Ireland (merely a geographical entity). Britain refers to England, Scotland, Wales and the islands. Great Britain refers to the same with the addition of N. Ireland.

I certainly inadvertently started something here.

Isn't it the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland ? That was always my understanding.

Edited June 15, 2011 by 1949threepence

[RLC35 288]

1949,

If the guy who made the video is right...then you are right also. Being an outsider (USA), I was going by what the video explained the United Kingdom to be, and it does sound reasonable.

[Peckris 579]

Isn't the only difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom...the addition of Northern Ireland? The way I am told it works is:

Great Britain includes: 1) England, Wales, and Scotland

United Kingdom includes: 2) England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

I'm not trying to start an argument here and should perhaps decline to answer your question as others have done, as this is a bit of a touchy subject, but the above is not correct. The United Kingdom is the combination of the two kingdoms of England and Scotland and was created in c.1707. The English portion consisted of England and its two provinces of Wales and Ireland which had been acquired by England sometime after the Norman invasion but before 1707. Both are geographical areas and were never counties as they consisted of many independent tribes, much as England had been prior to the Norman conquest. Today neither have parliaments, rather regional assemblies.

Further correction. Wales for centuries has not been a 'province' but a 'Principality'. (Viz., the Prince of Wales). I'm not sure what Ireland's status was in 1707, but Northern Ireland has certainly been a province since the formation of the Irish Free State. The status of the government of N Ireland has changed several times : the parliament at Stormont was suspended in the 1970s during 'the Troubles' and direct rule from Westminster was imposed. But now government has been reintroduced from Stormont with direct elections.

The British Isles includes the whole of Ireland (merely a geographical entity). Britain refers to England, Scotland, Wales and the islands. Great Britain refers to the same with the addition of N. Ireland.

I certainly inadvertently started something here.

Isn't it the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland ? That was always my understanding.

If so, it's a tautology - Great Britain INCLUDES N Ireland! Without it, it's just Britain.

[declanwmagee 122]

If so, it's a tautology - Great Britain INCLUDES N Ireland! Without it, it's just Britain.

No no no, Great Britain is the geographical island. It's Great because it's bigger than Less Britain, which is Brittany. A bit like Great Missenden.

Pre 1921 it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland. After partition it became the UK of GB & NI.

No part of Ireland is in Great Britain, and that's geography, unchangeable, regardless of political boundary drawing.

[Peckris 579]

If so, it's a tautology - Great Britain INCLUDES N Ireland! Without it, it's just Britain.

No no no, Great Britain is the geographical island. It's Great because it's bigger than Less Britain, which is Brittany. A bit like Great Missenden.

Pre 1921 it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland. After partition it became the UK of GB & NI.

No part of Ireland is in Great Britain, and that's geography, unchangeable, regardless of political boundary drawing.

I stand corrected. I must admit it's the first time I've heard of that (about Brittany).

[declanwmagee 122]

If so, it's a tautology - Great Britain INCLUDES N Ireland! Without it, it's just Britain.

No no no, Great Britain is the geographical island. It's Great because it's bigger than Less Britain, which is Brittany. A bit like Great Missenden.

Pre 1921 it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland. After partition it became the UK of GB & NI.

No part of Ireland is in Great Britain, and that's geography, unchangeable, regardless of political boundary drawing.

I stand corrected. I must admit it's the first time I've heard of that (about Brittany).

Spoke like a gentleman, Sir!

Edited June 16, 2011 by declanwmagee

[AardHawk 73]

If so, it's a tautology - Great Britain INCLUDES N Ireland! Without it, it's just Britain.

No no no, Great Britain is the geographical island. It's Great because it's bigger than Less Britain, which is Brittany. A bit like Great Missenden.

Pre 1921 it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland. After partition it became the UK of GB & NI.

No part of Ireland is in Great Britain, and that's geography, unchangeable, regardless of political boundary drawing.

I stand corrected. I must admit it's the first time I've heard of that (about Brittany).

Spoke like a gentleman, Sir!

This is all nonsense. The geographical region is Britannia (aka Britain) aka the British Isles, so that includes people living in Eire, Northern Ireland, Scotland, the Isle of Man, Wales, England, the Orkney's and the Shetlands. It does not include the Channel Islands.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain refers to the united thrones of Scotland and England. Scotland brought The Orkney's and and Shetlands along with it. England brought Wales and Ireland (and Cornwall) with it.

Over the years different parts of the British Isles have been accorded different status (dependent upon how raucous the populations were). Ireland was allowed to be come more independent by the united throne (government), though it remained an integral part of the British Empire such that Dublin was referred to as the second city of the empire.

The expression "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (latterly Northern Ireland)" is confusing, as it really means "The United thrones of Scotland and England, plus the semi independent (English) territory/province of Ireland (latterly Northern Ireland)".

Any talk about Brittany is specious. Any claim on that territory (together with Normandy and other parts of what is now France) was relinquished years before the formation of the United Kingdom, though a part of the this territory, The English Channel Islands are retained as Crown Dependencies of the United Kingdom.

The Venn diagram needs to be amended to reflect the above.

And the good news is that all you Irish are really British

[Red Riley 2]

This is all nonsense. The geographical region is Britannia (aka Britain) aka the British Isles, so that includes people living in Eire, Northern Ireland, Scotland, the Isle of Man, Wales, England, the Orkney's and the Shetlands. It does not include the Channel Islands.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain refers to the united thrones of Scotland and England. Scotland brought The Orkney's and and Shetlands along with it. England brought Wales and Ireland (and Cornwall) with it.

I don't know about the Britanny bit but wasn't Ireland named Hibernia by the Romans?

My understanding is as follws;

'Britain' excludes Ireland

'Great Britain' is Britain plus the bits of Ulster that became Northern Ireland

'The British Isles' are the two main islands of Britain and Ireland (Britannia and Hibernia) plus all the little bits between and around the two

'The United Kingdom' is the lands of England (plus Wales) and Scotland

[azda 979]

Was it ST Hellier that we owned (a strategic point between Britain and France) we also ruled part of North Germany at one time, think that came from Geo III who was born there, or was it Geo IV?

Its strange though, Britain dominated quite a large part of the planet and there was'nt much said about it, but when Adolf tried it

[Nick 329]

It appears that few of us know much about the land we live in, or its history. I'm sure that the confusion arises because the terms Great Britain and United Kingdom meant different things at different times.

As it stands today:

Great Britain = England, Wales and Scotland

United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland

For the details see Wikipedia

[declanwmagee 122]

It appears that few of us know much about the land we live in, or its history. I'm sure that the confusion arises because the terms Great Britain and United Kingdom meant different things at different times.

As it stands today:

Great Britain = England, Wales and Scotland

United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland

For the details see Wikipedia

Amazing isn't it!

I dare anyone to stand on the Falls Road and yell "You're all British you know!"

[declanwmagee 122]

It appears that few of us know much about the land we live in, or its history. I'm sure that the confusion arises because the terms Great Britain and United Kingdom meant different things at different times.

As it stands today:

Great Britain = England, Wales and Scotland

United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland

For the details see Wikipedia

Less Britain

[declanwmagee 122]

Any talk about Brittany is specious. Any claim on that territory (together with Normandy and other parts of what is now France) was relinquished years before the formation of the United Kingdom, though a part of the this territory, The English Channel Islands are retained as Crown Dependencies of the United Kingdom.

You see, it's not about who ruled where, it's about who lived where.

The island of Britain acquired its prefix "Great" to distinguish it from the other, smaller, place where the Britons/Bretons lived. That wasn't, and still isn't, Ireland.

[Red Riley 2]

You see, it's not about who ruled where, it's about who lived where.

The island of Britain acquired its prefix "Great" to distinguish it from the other, smaller, place where the Britons/Bretons lived. That wasn't, and still isn't, Ireland.

The British (or whoever...) have got to be the least patriotic people in the world, and I think we've just proved that. We cringe when others wear their nationalty on their sleeve - when the Americans play 'God bless America' I hide behind the sofa! Their genuine national anthem however is way better than our dirge.

[Peckris 579]

This is all nonsense. The geographical region is Britannia (aka Britain) aka the British Isles, so that includes people living in Eire, Northern Ireland, Scotland, the Isle of Man, Wales, England, the Orkney's and the Shetlands. It does not include the Channel Islands.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain refers to the united thrones of Scotland and England. Scotland brought The Orkney's and and Shetlands along with it. England brought Wales and Ireland (and Cornwall) with it.

Over the years different parts of the British Isles have been accorded different status (dependent upon how raucous the populations were). Ireland was allowed to be come more independent by the united throne (government), though it remained an integral part of the British Empire such that Dublin was referred to as the second city of the empire.

The expression "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (latterly Northern Ireland)" is confusing, as it really means "The United thrones of Scotland and England, plus the semi independent (English) territory/province of Ireland (latterly Northern Ireland)".

Any talk about Brittany is specious. Any claim on that territory (together with Normandy and other parts of what is now France) was relinquished years before the formation of the United Kingdom, though a part of the this territory, The English Channel Islands are retained as Crown Dependencies of the United Kingdom.

This is all bollocks. Eire is a fully independent member of the EU and no longer part of "Britain The Political Unit" (as you well know - you are only trying to stir things politically ) since 1928 when the Irish Free State was established. I'm less sure about the status of Ireland between 1922 and 1928.

You see, it's not about who ruled where, it's about who lived where.

The island of Britain acquired its prefix "Great" to distinguish it from the other, smaller, place where the Britons/Bretons lived. That wasn't, and still isn't, Ireland.

The British (or whoever...) have got to be the least patriotic people in the world, and I think we've just proved that. We cringe when others wear their nationalty on their sleeve - when the Americans play 'God bless America' I hide behind the sofa!

Me too!

Their genuine national anthem however is way better than our dirge.

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

Edited June 18, 2011 by Peckris

[Red Riley 2]

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

Lichtenstein too.

The French however have the best National Anthem by a country mile.

[1949threepence 3,367]

I always found the Russian national anthem (which is the same as the old Soviet Union one, but with different words) quite inspiring, and in truth, pretty much all the national anthems globally, are better than ours. It is, as others have said, a dreary and tedious dirge.

There are so many pieces from home grown composers which could easily be adapted to form a new national anthem. To take just two examples, Walton's "Crown Imperial", or maybe Elgar's "Pomp & Circumstance March No 4". Even the hymns "Jerusalem" or "I vow to thee my country" are better than what we have at present.

[Gary D 76]

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

And as to the patron saints, mostly a bunch of foreigners. St David was the only home grown one as he was actually Welsh, St Partick was reportedly Romano-British (English). And as for St George and St Andrew, if they wanted to enter the country now a days they would probably have to hide out in the back of an artic crossing the channel.

[RLC35 288]

You see, it's not about who ruled where, it's about who lived where.

The island of Britain acquired its prefix "Great" to distinguish it from the other, smaller, place where the Britons/Bretons lived. That wasn't, and still isn't, Ireland.

The British (or whoever...) have got to be the least patriotic people in the world, and I think we've just proved that. We cringe when others wear their nationalty on their sleeve - when the Americans play 'God bless America' I hide behind the sofa! Their genuine national anthem however is way better than our dirge.

The American's also have a patriotic song..."My Country tis of thee (sweet land of liberty)"...which is sung to the music of "God Save the Queen." In the early years of our Republic, many American's (mostly of English decent) thought of this song to be the National Anthem! Francis Scott Key's "Star Spangled Banner" was officially made the National anthem at a later date.

I recently heard a version of the "Star Spangled Banner" that was played by order of the Queen, at Buckingham Palace on 911. It was a very stirring rendition of our anthem.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allproudamericans.com%2Femotional-911-version-of-the-National-Anthem.html&h=b6052

Above is the video of the 911 performance!

Edited June 18, 2011 by RLC35

[Peter 615]

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

Lichtenstein too.

The French however have the best National Anthem by a country mile.

Ou est le papier,ou est le papier,Monsieur,monsieur,j'at fait manure....ou est le papier.

[Peckris 579]

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

Lichtenstein too.

The French however have the best National Anthem by a country mile.

As featured in "Casablanca"? A grown man, that scene always reduces me to tears!

I always found the Russian national anthem (which is the same as the old Soviet Union one, but with different words) quite inspiring, and in truth, pretty much all the national anthems globally, are better than ours. It is, as others have said, a dreary and tedious dirge.

There are so many pieces from home grown composers which could easily be adapted to form a new national anthem. To take just two examples, Walton's "Crown Imperial", or maybe Elgar's "Pomp & Circumstance March No 4". Even the hymns "Jerusalem" or "I vow to thee my country" are better than what we have at present.

That would have been my vote before the Barmy Army got hold of it

Except don't they also use our dirge with their own different words to it? And Montenegro too? (Which makes football matches between England and Montenegro somewhat confusing affairs - the dopier sort of lager lout probably doesn't know which anthem to boo ). The mystifying thing is, why would two separate nations apart from ours, want to take that horrible dirge in any way shape or form?

And as to the patron saints, mostly a bunch of foreigners. St David was the only home grown one as he was actually Welsh, St Partick was reportedly Romano-British (English). And as for St George and St Andrew, if they wanted to enter the country now a days they would probably have to hide out in the back of an artic crossing the channel.

Maltese I believe? Or was it Cyprus, or Lebanon? A long way from the White Cliffs, that's for sure, though that well known Englishman Benedetto did try to give him an British visa!

You see, it's not about who ruled where, it's about who lived where.

The island of Britain acquired its prefix "Great" to distinguish it from the other, smaller, place where the Britons/Bretons lived. That wasn't, and still isn't, Ireland.

The British (or whoever...) have got to be the least patriotic people in the world, and I think we've just proved that. We cringe when others wear their nationalty on their sleeve - when the Americans play 'God bless America' I hide behind the sofa! Their genuine national anthem however is way better than our dirge.

The American's also have a patriotic song..."My Country tis of thee (sweet land of liberty)"...which is sung to the music of "God Save the Queen." In the early years of our Republic, many American's (mostly of English decent) thought of this song to be the National Anthem! Francis Scott Key's "Star Spangled Banner" was officially made the National anthem at a later date.

I recently heard a version of the "Star Spangled Banner" that was played by order of the Queen, at Buckingham Palace on 911. It was a very stirring rendition of our anthem.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allproudamericans.com%2Femotional-911-version-of-the-National-Anthem.html&h=b6052

Above is the video of the 911 performance!

That's the one I was thinking of (above) !

The slight flaw in that argument is that our dirge was composed long after American Independence, isn't that so? Around 60 years?

Edited June 18, 2011 by Peckris