unusal 1917 george v penny.

[scampi 0]

hello.

as a casual collector of british and irish copper and bronze coins (and being new to the site) i was wondering if any of you "clued up" people could help me with an inquiry. i have a george v 1917 penny which is slightly smaller in diameter than the normal sized penny. it is struck on a lightweight flan of uniform thickness, very thin, weighing only 4.8 grammes which as you all know is only half the normal weight. it is metallic and non-magnetic and appears to be quite porous and of a soft strike. could it be a token or a fake or perhaps some sort of replica? its in quite poor condition and ive no doubt it is basically worthless, but, it is rather puzzling. anyone got any ideas?

[Gary D 76]

hello.

as a casual collector of british and irish copper and bronze coins (and being new to the site) i was wondering if any of you "clued up" people could help me with an inquiry. i have a george v 1917 penny which is slightly smaller in diameter than the normal sized penny. it is struck on a lightweight flan of uniform thickness, very thin, weighing only 4.8 grammes which as you all know is only half the normal weight. it is metallic and non-magnetic and appears to be quite porous and of a soft strike. could it be a token or a fake or perhaps some sort of replica? its in quite poor condition and ive no doubt it is basically worthless, but, it is rather puzzling. anyone got any ideas?

Without a photo is very difficult to tell. Usually when you come across a penny that is slightly small in diameter and about half the normal thickness someone has been playing silly beggers and have partly disolved it in acid.

Oh and welcome to the forum

Edited June 25, 2011 by Gary D

[Peckris 579]

hello.

as a casual collector of british and irish copper and bronze coins (and being new to the site) i was wondering if any of you "clued up" people could help me with an inquiry. i have a george v 1917 penny which is slightly smaller in diameter than the normal sized penny. it is struck on a lightweight flan of uniform thickness, very thin, weighing only 4.8 grammes which as you all know is only half the normal weight. it is metallic and non-magnetic and appears to be quite porous and of a soft strike. could it be a token or a fake or perhaps some sort of replica? its in quite poor condition and ive no doubt it is basically worthless, but, it is rather puzzling. anyone got any ideas?

Without a photo is very difficult to tell. Usually when you come across a penny that is slightly small in diameter and about half the normal thickness someone has been playing silly beggers and have partly disolved it in acid.

Oh and welcome to the forum

I've had a 1928 shilling for years which fits the same bill - very thin, lightwieght and in a poor condition. However, the 'poorness' is not remotely like normal wear, it's like a ghost image of the original but completely even with no parts more worn than others (on any normal coin you'd see flattening on the highest points first, and then a progressively uneven wear over time.) Someone long ago said it had probably been dipped (submersed!!) in acid.

[scampi 0]

thanks for the welcome. just scanned the coin. to my surprise the scan shows a number "8" to the right of the date. there are also what look like die marks on the obverse of the coin. i have tried to attach the scans but theu will not upload because they are slightly bigger than 150kb.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Welcome.

Can I urge you to persist, sounds interesting.

All you need do is resize the scan in your photo editing suite ?

[azda 979]

You can also host the picture on photobucket and then copy and paste the code into your comment and we'll see the picture

[argentumandcoins 70]

Peck is correct.

Lightweight flan reduced in size and weak looking strike are indicators of an acid bath.

[scampi 0]

hi there. thanks for the interest on the coin, its making me feel right at home. i am going to drive down to my mates house and set him to the task of trying to up upload the coin for you to view... i am to computers what Attila the Hun was to diplomacy. other interesting points about the coin. if acid is responsible for the reduction in size why are there teeth marks on one side of the coin but not the other? also on the obverse side of the coin there appears to be what looks like a "2" in the region of the kings chin. regarding the "8" to the right of the date you can see that it appears not to have been stamped into the coin after it was minted but rather minted that way due to the fact that the numeral appears to have raised sides, not as a recessed stamp mark. anyway, thanks for the encouragement. it will more than likely turn out to be something quite mundane but it is keeping me occupied for the present. bye for now.

[Colin G. 147]

hi there. thanks for the interest on the coin, its making me feel right at home. i am going to drive down to my mates house and set him to the task of trying to up upload the coin for you to view... i am to computers what Attila the Hun was to diplomacy. other interesting points about the coin. if acid is responsible for the reduction in size why are there teeth marks on one side of the coin but not the other? also on the obverse side of the coin there appears to be what looks like a "2" in the region of the kings chin. regarding the "8" to the right of the date you can see that it appears not to have been stamped into the coin after it was minted but rather minted that way due to the fact that the numeral appears to have raised sides, not as a recessed stamp mark. anyway, thanks for the encouragement. it will more than likely turn out to be something quite mundane but it is keeping me occupied for the present. bye for now.

Fell free to e-mail me photos and I will host the pictures for you

[scampi 0]

thanks for that colin. i have sent you the two pictures.

[scampi 0]

hope this works.

[Colin G. 147]

hope this works.

You just beat me to it!!!

[VickySilver 836]

Definate stigmata of acid dip.

[scampi 0]

thanks colin. i seem to be getting the hang of this uploading now. i think everyone seems to agree that it has had an acid bath. but what about the number "8"? there also seems to be what looks like ghosting on the reverse side. has someone added the numberl "8" in a "garden shed project" or is it actually some kind of diie mark.

[Peckris 579]

thanks colin. i seem to be getting the hang of this uploading now. i think everyone seems to agree that it has had an acid bath. but what about the number "8"? there also seems to be what looks like ghosting on the reverse side. has someone added the numberl "8" in a "garden shed project" or is it actually some kind of diie mark.

I'm unsure about the '8'. It definitely looks like an 8, but it's entirely possible that it's an accidental result of the acid damage. Can you take a photo enlargement of the date area, and upload it?

As for the ghosting - yes, you're right. It's a common feature on that series of pennies. See my reply here :

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5941&pid=53490&st=0entry53490

[scampi 0]

thanks to Peckris for the idea of enlarging the area where the "8" is. never thought of that. it will have to wait till wednesday and then i will have a go at it. as for the ghosting i am aware of the ghosting effect on George V pennies, the reason i mentioned the ghosting was to suggest that the coin was not faked. for if it was a token or replica then the ghosting would almost certainly not be present. as for acid causing what appears to be an "8", then yes it is a good possibility but if acid is reponsible it must be a one in a trillion chance when you consider how perpendicular to the date that it stands, how close to the edge of the coin that it is situated, how perfectly balanced the numeral is loop for loop, and, most importantly, why situated where it is? why is it situated next to the date? why not on the obverse side, if it is mere chance, say for example right smack dab in the middle of the kings head. if it is mere chance, its one hell of a big one! thanks anyway for the interest...much obliged.

[Peckris 579]

thanks to Peckris for the idea of enlarging the area where the "8" is. never thought of that. it will have to wait till wednesday and then i will have a go at it. as for the ghosting i am aware of the ghosting effect on George V pennies, the reason i mentioned the ghosting was to suggest that the coin was not faked. for if it was a token or replica then the ghosting would almost certainly not be present. as for acid causing what appears to be an "8", then yes it is a good possibility but if acid is reponsible it must be a one in a trillion chance when you consider how perpendicular to the date that it stands, how close to the edge of the coin that it is situated, how perfectly balanced the numeral is loop for loop, and, most importantly, why situated where it is? why is it situated next to the date? why not on the obverse side, if it is mere chance, say for example right smack dab in the middle of the kings head. if it is mere chance, its one hell of a big one! thanks anyway for the interest...much obliged.

You're right, I very much doubt the coin would be a fake - who'd fake a 1917 penny? Looking forward to see the enlargement.