1821 sixpence BBITANNIAR?

[Nick 329]

I have noticed that I have two slightly different 1821 sixpences and wonder if one is the rare BBITANNIAR variety. It is true that the two R's are different in terms of the inner serif, but in addition to that difference there is definitely something under the R appearing to connect the serif to the tail.

What do you think?

[Rob 3,152]

I have noticed that I have two slightly different 1821 sixpences and wonder if one is the rare BBITANNIAR variety. It is true that the two R's are different in terms of the inner serif, but in addition to that difference there is definitely something under the R appearing to connect the serif to the tail.

What do you think?

I'd say no. The small spur linking the upright of the R to the tail is not the same shape as the previous B and should be thicker at the join in my opinion.

ESC p.157 footnote 1 says "The first B was struck from a broken punch and when an attempt was made to strengthen it a new B was mistakenly struck over the second letter, giving the appearance of BBITANIAR, although the original R shows through (below on the die, above on the coin)."

Although the "B and R" arangement would fit the description above, you would expect the two Bs to be the same profile given the same punch would be used - which they aren't. There are quite a few examples of this profile R thoughout the years, so if one is R/B they would all have to be. The worst period for serifs joined is William III, though Geo. III has a fair sprinkling. It is the opposite effect to all those inverted Vs for As which are only filled dies. In this instance it appears to be a small flaw making the link.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Rob

[Coppers 58]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

[Peckris 579]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

That DNW specimen is too worn to be conclusive - it could easily be BBITANNIAR, with wear or damage to the first B which is only half there anyway.

[Colin G. 147]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

That DNW specimen is too worn to be conclusive - it could easily be BBITANNIAR, with wear or damage to the first B which is only half there anyway.

I agree, if anyone tried that on ebay we would soon have them in the ebay laughs post!!

[Nick 329]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

I vaguely recall seeing a better version (EF ?) that definitely looked like RBITANNIAR, although I'm not certain it was a sixpence. I think it was at DNW, but can't find a decent picture.

I did find this one 1821 RBITANNIAR

[Nick 329]

I'd say no. The small spur linking the upright of the R to the tail is not the same shape as the previous B and should be thicker at the join in my opinion.

ESC p.157 footnote 1 says "The first B was struck from a broken punch and when an attempt was made to strengthen it a new B was mistakenly struck over the second letter, giving the appearance of BBITANIAR, although the original R shows through (below on the die, above on the coin)."

Thanks. It's a shame for me, but I think you're right.

[Peckris 579]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

I vaguely recall seeing a better version (EF ?) that definitely looked like RBITANNIAR, although I'm not certain it was a sixpence. I think it was at DNW, but can't find a decent picture.

I did find this one 1821 RBITANNIAR

Again, that one (though a respectable grade) really doesn't convince either. The first character doesn't look like a convincing B or R. In fact, it rather looks as though someone made an error (BITANNIAR) and then made a crude attempt to correct it with a B in front, but got it badly wrong and mixed up with George's syrup. The left hand downstroke isn't even nearly the right thickness - it really looks like a botch job.

[Colin G. 147]

It looks like the B needed re-cutting, but the R was actually recut instead with a B by mistake

[Cerbera100 0]

There is also the 1821 RBITANNIAR sixpence that appeared in a DNW sale earlier this year:

link

That DNW specimen is too worn to be conclusive - it could easily be BBITANNIAR, with wear or damage to the first B which is only half there anyway.

I saw this one in hand... looked at it without really reading description, then checked again and nearly laughed! If they can call that an 'apparently unrecorded variety' than the blank copper disk in my hand is the 'previously unknown and definitely unrecorded' 1933 low tide penny with die numeral below date and 1/2d sized letters!

[Nick 329]

I vaguely recall seeing a better version (EF ?) that definitely looked like RBITANNIAR, although I'm not certain it was a sixpence. I think it was at DNW, but can't find a decent picture.

I found a picture of the sixpence I was looking for. It was lot 169 in the DNW auction of 16 Mar 2011 and was just listed as a gVF 1821 sixpence.