Will fake coins become harded to detect?

[Gollum]

Sounds like they have used a very big hammer to crack a nut that would have been better tackled by ebay taking more notice when experienced numismatists report dodgy items.

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

Whoever it was would have to have VERY deep pockets in case it went pete tong and got ruled against.

[Nick]

Sounds like they have used a very big hammer to crack a nut that would have been better tackled by ebay taking more notice when experienced numismatists report dodgy items.

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

Whoever it was would have to have VERY deep pockets in case it went pete tong and got ruled against.

When you have a cast iron case, they would settle out of court.

[Gollum]

Sounds like they have used a very big hammer to crack a nut that would have been better tackled by ebay taking more notice when experienced numismatists report dodgy items.

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

Whoever it was would have to have VERY deep pockets in case it went pete tong and got ruled against.

When you have a cast iron case, they would settle out of court.

But out of court settlements normally come with a non disclosure clause, and then they would hide it all. so no real benefit except in this case, you know they will just pay it and move on as it would be more profitable to them, much like the auto industry did, it is easier to pay out as cases come up than to stop taking revenue in the first place, especially if only the odd one or two sue.

[TomGoodheart]

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

I suspect that ebay would wonder how the buyer found out that the item had been reported; given that such things are confidential. And if the buyer complained that they had only subsequently found out, without knowing the ebay had been told the coin was dodgy, ebay would probably just tell them to claim their money back from the seller.

ebay after all, always have the recourse of saying that they are not experts on coins (or any other item), merely provide a platform for sellers and buyers. Probably they would argue that they didn't misrepresent the item, the seller did. And therefore any complaints the buyer has should firstly be presented to the seller (who from experience will probably just refund the buyer immediately to avoid problems and negative reporting). Afterwards ebay might choose to take action, but as usual, are unlikely to agree to tell anyone what form that action will take.

Rob might choose to chip in at this point as he has a little experience in this area ..

[Nick]

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

I suspect that ebay would wonder how the buyer found out that the item had been reported; given that such things are confidential. And if the buyer complained that they had only subsequently found out, without knowing the ebay had been told the coin was dodgy, ebay would probably just tell them to claim their money back from the seller.

ebay after all, always have the recourse of saying that they are not experts on coins (or any other item), merely provide a platform for sellers and buyers. Probably they would argue that they didn't misrepresent the item, the seller did. And therefore any complaints the buyer has should firstly be presented to the seller (who from experience will probably just refund the buyer immediately to avoid problems and negative reporting). Afterwards ebay might choose to take action, but as usual, are unlikely to agree to tell anyone what form that action will take.

Rob might choose to chip in at this point as he has a little experience in this area ..

Ignorance has never been a valid defence. I believe that auction houses/sites are legally acting as agents for the seller and as such are liable.

[Rob]

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

I suspect that ebay would wonder how the buyer found out that the item had been reported; given that such things are confidential. And if the buyer complained that they had only subsequently found out, without knowing the ebay had been told the coin was dodgy, ebay would probably just tell them to claim their money back from the seller.

ebay after all, always have the recourse of saying that they are not experts on coins (or any other item), merely provide a platform for sellers and buyers. Probably they would argue that they didn't misrepresent the item, the seller did. And therefore any complaints the buyer has should firstly be presented to the seller (who from experience will probably just refund the buyer immediately to avoid problems and negative reporting). Afterwards ebay might choose to take action, but as usual, are unlikely to agree to tell anyone what form that action will take.

Rob might choose to chip in at this point as he has a little experience in this area ..

If it is fraud on ebay, they will do nothing because they refuse to deal with members of the public, only the Police - that was from the horse's mouth as I managed to get a phone link to someone at eBay. And in reality the Police will only get involved if someone has had been hurt or suffered loss through a criminal act. Basically you are on a hiding to nothing. In the case of a well known fraud about 5 or 6 years ago, I got a friend in the local force to do a bit of digging, but there were no open cases against the individuals involved and so nothing to pursue. Presumably because embarrassment ruled where the losers were concerned and nobody reported it as a crime despite the whole world knowing what happened. Simply put, crime pays.

In the case of dodgy items on eBay, so many have been reported by so many people and so little done to remove them, that we all know where we stand on that one. Trading standards don't want to know, so again it would need to be a case of criminal loss to get the ball rolling despite everyone knowing the perpetrators.

[Nick]

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

I suspect that ebay would wonder how the buyer found out that the item had been reported; given that such things are confidential. And if the buyer complained that they had only subsequently found out, without knowing the ebay had been told the coin was dodgy, ebay would probably just tell them to claim their money back from the seller.

ebay after all, always have the recourse of saying that they are not experts on coins (or any other item), merely provide a platform for sellers and buyers. Probably they would argue that they didn't misrepresent the item, the seller did. And therefore any complaints the buyer has should firstly be presented to the seller (who from experience will probably just refund the buyer immediately to avoid problems and negative reporting). Afterwards ebay might choose to take action, but as usual, are unlikely to agree to tell anyone what form that action will take.

Rob might choose to chip in at this point as he has a little experience in this area ..

If it is fraud on ebay, they will do nothing because they refuse to deal with members of the public, only the Police - that was from the horse's mouth as I managed to get a phone link to someone at eBay. And in reality the Police will only get involved if someone has had been hurt or suffered loss through a criminal act. Basically you are on a hiding to nothing. In the case of a well known fraud about 5 or 6 years ago, I got a friend in the local force to do a bit of digging, but there were no open cases against the individuals involved and so nothing to pursue. Presumably because embarrassment ruled where the losers were concerned and nobody reported it as a crime despite the whole world knowing what happened. Simply put, crime pays.

In the case of dodgy items on eBay, so many have been reported by so many people and so little done to remove them, that we all know where we stand on that one. Trading standards don't want to know, so again it would need to be a case of criminal loss to get the ball rolling despite everyone knowing the perpetrators.

Where are the investigative journalists when you need them. Sadly, they seem more interested in who shagged who.

[Rob]

Where are the investigative journalists when you need them. Sadly, they seem more interested in who shagged who.

The tabloid interest in screwing only works on a personal level or a menage a trois at the most. One person screwing tens, hundreds or thousands doesn't have the same appeal. If I had worked for Murdoch, it would have been all over the papers by now - officially.

[seuk]

I reported this one some time ago (and I'm sure others did as well). Its actually stamped with an R (Replica) on the reverse! I also wrote the seller who didn't react. Fortunately he didn't used private listings so I just had to make a small bid in order to inform the winner:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230726136899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

It will be interesting to see if a clear case like this will make ebay react in the future.

[Seb Delcampe]

Hello Gollum,

Seb, I noted all the above and will do as instructed regarding the settings, after posting I went and had a good in depth look around, I am glad to see that many of the sellers are selling their run of the mill circulated stuff for peanuts ( well lot lower than the 99p ebay minimum ! ) so that pleases me immensely,

It is important for us to allow any collector (with thin or thick wallet) to find things on our site. The most difficult thing is to keep the whole thing as clean as possible, and for this we still have efforts to do.

however I have one further criticsim, there is no shopping basket, I went into one sellers shop, saw a lot of coins I liked at 20-50p and decided that I might like to buy them as fillers, but it means clicking on each coin and then clicking buy, I find that a little annoying, can you put a shopping basket on the site please.

It is indeed previewed, but actually not available.

So far contrary to my initial post, it seems a nice site apart from feeling clunky to me, that may be down to being used to the ebay format, I don't know yet, but if you can promise to keep the forgeries out or at least declared as such in their own section then we can have a happy partnership as venue and buyer.

Regarding forgeries, it is not a promise for the future, it is part of our ethics for a long time

Thank you for your reply, Sebastien

[azda]

Sounds like they have used a very big hammer to crack a nut that would have been better tackled by ebay taking more notice when experienced numismatists report dodgy items.

The next time a fake appears on eBay, one of us should put in a large bid to secure the item and a few others should report the item as fake. eBay will take no action and allow the buyer to become the proud owner of a worthless item. We could then sue eBay having incontrovertible proof that eBay allowed a fake to be sold.

It seems that litigation and bad publicity are the only things eBay listen to.

Whoever it was would have to have VERY deep pockets in case it went pete tong and got ruled against.

When you have a cast iron case, they would settle out of court.

It won't start until the 20th Feb, so just wait a little before buying a fake