S. & S.J. Ingley counterfeit of 3/- Bank Token 1811

[seuk 85]

"On Saturday last, Mr. Payn, attended by several assistants, entered the premises of Samuel and James Ingley, situated in the Lower Priory, in Birmingham, and found them at work stamping the blanks of three shilling pieces, a great number of which were in a state ready for circulation. They are very well executed, ring well and shrill, and are of the date of 1811. The offenders were secured and lodged in prison, with a large quantity of blanks and finished pieces, and on Monday they were brought up for examination and committed to the county gaol" Leicester Journal. 29 July 1814*

Normally this would be just another report from the heydays of counterfeiting under George III. However in 1980 Antony Gunstone** descriped two counterfeits from the collection of the Birmingham City Museum. A finished coin punched: S. INGLEY'S COUNTERFEIT and a blank punched: A COUNTERFEIT BLANK. / OF / S. AND S. J. INGLEY'S, / (rosette) WHO WERE TRIED AT / WARWICK ASSIZES, 1814: / AND TRANSPORTED. / FOR 14 YEARS. / (rosette)

Of course I was very excited to find out if I had one of these counterfeits in my collection. And I had!

This counterfeit is of a unique type having very large lettering. So far I've seen two out of 37 counterfeit coins, both from the same dies which are also the same dies as used for the example in Birmingham City Museum. Although my material is of little statistic significance it seems likely that the Ingley production was done on a fairly small scale, perhaps only involving one pair of dies.

The counterfeit of the famous coiner William Booth also included the 3 shillings Bank Token of 1811. A hoard of counterfeit 1s. 6d. Bank Tokens found in 1956 at Perry Barr, Birmingham could be a key to identify some of Booths production. I've yet to see a photo of these coins of which a few should be in the Birmingham City Museum. (Curiously two of Booths servants were Richard and Dorothy Ingley who may have been related to Samuel and James***.)

*) R.A. Rutland: Counterfeit British Currency 1811-17: A Leicester Viewpoint. - Seaby's Coin & Medal Bulletin No. 744, Aug. 1980

**) Antony Gunstone: Counterfeit Bank of England Tokens. - Spink's Numismatic Circular, Vol.88, No. 12, Dec. 1980

***)John Powell: The Birmingham Coiners 1770-1816 - History Today, Vol. 43, July 1993

[Red Riley 2]

That's a very interesting report SEUK. As I've said umpteen times in the past, coin collecting is about history, not serried ranks of near identical coins all in BU condition...

[Peter 615]

Super Job SEUK.

Keep them coming.

[seuk 85]

Just got a second example Clearly made of brass and low weight of 13.0 gr whereas my example shown above weights 15.6 gr. (even 0.4 gr. more than a genuine coin) and looks more like copper.

Would be interesting if I could find one without the die crack on reverse. But often this comes at a very early state and may perhaps be an impossible dream.

[Rob 3,152]

That's a very interesting report SEUK. As I've said umpteen times in the past, coin collecting is about history, not serried ranks of near identical coins all in BU condition...

Collecting is about all of it. History of the various types, who made them, how they were made, why they were made, die and punch links, errors, mules, high grades, low grades, common, rare, bullion and base metals, currency, patterns, proofs, big coins, little coins, anything you care to mention that fires the individual's imagination. So much to learn about past generations and even whole civilisations, their histories, values and beliefs. If anyone is bored with coins, I suggest they don't exercise their grey matter enough.

[Mongo 1]

Amazing! I had alot of fun reading this

[Paulus 1,975]

That's a very interesting report SEUK. As I've said umpteen times in the past, coin collecting is about history, not serried ranks of near identical coins all in BU condition...

Collecting is about all of it. History of the various types, who made them, how they were made, why they were made, die and punch links, errors, mules, high grades, low grades, common, rare, bullion and base metals, currency, patterns, proofs, big coins, little coins, anything you care to mention that fires the individual's imagination. So much to learn about past generations and even whole civilisations, their histories, values and beliefs. If anyone is bored with coins, I suggest they don't exercise their grey matter enough.

Well said Rob, sums it up for me!

[seuk 85]

The counterfeit of the famous coiner William Booth also included the 3 shillings Bank Token of 1811. A hoard of counterfeit 1s. 6d. Bank Tokens found in 1956 at Perry Barr, Birmingham could be a key to identify some of Booths production. I've yet to see a photo of these coins of which a few should be in the Birmingham City Museum. (Curiously two of Booths servants were Richard and Dorothy Ingley who may have been related to Samuel and James***.)

Haven't had much time for coins lately - but two days ago I took the time to have a closer look at one of my newcomers to find that it matched the dies of the 1956 hoard of 63 BoE 1s6d tokens found at Foden Road, Birmingham. Half a mile from the famous forger William Booths farm! (BNJ 1958, pp. 423-24 pl. XXV).

These have smaller lettering than other counterfeits of the 1s6d and closely resembles the size of the lettering on an genuine coin though the design is slightly different especially of A, G, K, R and S. It also have a tiny dot to the left above B of BANK on reverse.

Completely by coincident it turns out that today is the 200th anniversary of Booth's execution (15th Aug 1812)

Edited August 15, 2012 by seuk

[Peckris 579]

The counterfeit of the famous coiner William Booth also included the 3 shillings Bank Token of 1811. A hoard of counterfeit 1s. 6d. Bank Tokens found in 1956 at Perry Barr, Birmingham could be a key to identify some of Booths production. I've yet to see a photo of these coins of which a few should be in the Birmingham City Museum. (Curiously two of Booths servants were Richard and Dorothy Ingley who may have been related to Samuel and James***.)

Haven't had much time for coins lately - but two days ago I took the time to have a closer look at one of my newcomers to find that it matched the dies of the 1956 hoard of 63 BoE 1s6d tokens found at Foden Road, Birmingham. Half a mile from the famous forger William Booths farm! (BNJ 1958, pp. 423-24 pl. XXV).

These have smaller lettering than other counterfeits of the 1s6d and closely resembles the size of the lettering on an genuine coin though the design is slightly different especially of A, G, K, R and S. It also have a tiny dot to the left above B of BANK on reverse.

Completely by coincident it turns out that today is the 200th anniversary of Booth's execution (15th Aug 1812)

Interesting that the silver-washed copper forgeries predate the Great Recoinage, even if only a few years. But then, there must have been a chronic shortage of silver by the time of those tokens. There must also have been different laws regarding the metals allowed in trade tokens - copper wasn't exactly discouraged, but you don't see silver denominations as trade tokens in the late 18th Century. Having said that, one of my copper tokens has a face value of 6d, but those must have been pretty unusual. You don't see a token coinage until the countermarked 8 reales and BoE dollars, followed by those unusual tokens. Yet the biggest demand must have been not for large silver, but sixpences and threepences, and there was nothing to plug that gap. (Yes, there was the 1787 coinage but those survive in such high grade you can hardly imagine them circulating widely).

[Peter 615]

Collecting coins is a wide subject.

My mother reads Mills and boon.

Father read Dennis Wheatly.

I read fact (apart from Douglas Adams)

Our weekly trip to the library (sweetshop afterwards)then the fish mongers (bloaters,kippers,sprats,herring,cod roe)was a Saturday routine.

I used to cook the fish.

My daughters friends are unwary of anything that doesn't come in breadcrumbs and a birds eye packet.

This weekend I will forage on the shore for tea.

Some hot bread,seafood,salad followed by a Monte Christo and a walk on the beach does me fine.

[azda 979]

Collecting coins is a wide subject.

My mother reads Mills and boon.

Father read Dennis Wheatly.

I read fact (apart from Douglas Adams)

Our weekly trip to the library (sweetshop afterwards)then the fish mongers (bloaters,kippers,sprats,herring,cod roe)was a Saturday routine.

I used to cook the fish.

My daughters friends are unwary of anything that doesn't come in breadcrumbs and a birds eye packet.

This weekend I will forage on the shore for tea.

Some hot bread,seafood,salad followed by a Monte Christo and a walk on the beach does me fine.

I sometimes wonder if you read 2 forums at the same time Peter or if there's to much Bob Hope rolled up in the Cubans you smoke, definately of Jamacian origins though via Amsterdam lol

[Coinery 1,153]

Collecting coins is a wide subject.

My mother reads Mills and boon.

Father read Dennis Wheatly.

I read fact (apart from Douglas Adams)

Our weekly trip to the library (sweetshop afterwards)then the fish mongers (bloaters,kippers,sprats,herring,cod roe)was a Saturday routine.

I used to cook the fish.

My daughters friends are unwary of anything that doesn't come in breadcrumbs and a birds eye packet.

This weekend I will forage on the shore for tea.

Some hot bread,seafood,salad followed by a Monte Christo and a walk on the beach does me fine.

[Peckris 579]

Collecting coins is a wide subject.

My mother reads Mills and boon.

Father read Dennis Wheatly.

I read fact (apart from Douglas Adams)

Our weekly trip to the library (sweetshop afterwards)then the fish mongers (bloaters,kippers,sprats,herring,cod roe)was a Saturday routine.

I used to cook the fish.

My daughters friends are unwary of anything that doesn't come in breadcrumbs and a birds eye packet.

This weekend I will forage on the shore for tea.

Some hot bread,seafood,salad followed by a Monte Christo and a walk on the beach does me fine.

I sometimes wonder if you read 2 forums at the same time Peter or if there's to much Bob Hope rolled up in the Cubans you smoke, definately of Jamacian origins though via Amsterdam lol

[seuk 85]

Two more Ingley's - they're getting common...

[copper123 1,486]

Would not forgery of these pieces result in the rarther drastic sentence of death, or was the very common death sentence becoming rarer as Farmer George entered his final years?

[seuk 85]

Would not forgery of these pieces result in the rarther drastic sentence of death, or was the very common death sentence becoming rarer as Farmer George entered his final years?

Transportation seems to be the norm in most cases but I'm not sure on the statistics. Anyway the last hanging was in 1829 and forgery were reclassified as non capital in 1836.

[copper123 1,486]

thanks for very informative answer - surpose the big loss to the treasury in the big meltdown and recoinage of the copper halfpennies and farthings in 1796 - 1797 was fadeing into the past and a more liberal and enlightened era was approaching.

Also i am not actually sure of the legal standing of these" bank tokens" ie were they official currency or just considered as something else.

To be fair the most copied coins i know are George III halfpennies 1775 and the 1816-1820 issue shillings , there are hundreds of thousands out there.

[Peter 615]

I do believe the copper coins/tokens of 1770+ were actually required to let the poor(er) have a relative level of commerce.

A very interesting subject which deserves my attention..

[Peckris 579]

I do believe the copper coins/tokens of 1770+ were actually required to let the poor(er) have a relative level of commerce.

A very interesting subject which deserves my attention..

My understanding (I may be wrong ) is that tokens were not legal tender, but were usually issued by companies and traders for spending on the premises owned by the issuer. Of course, some were issued specifically for collectors etc, i.e. should be regarded as contemporary commems - those quite possibly had no commercial basis whatever.