1858/3 Penny

[Accumulator 52]

I've recently purchased this 1858/3 (?) penny and wonder whether anyone has a similar penny to compare? Michael Gouby's website concludes that the existence of an 8 over 3, as listed by Spink is unlikely. Any thoughts welcome.

Obverse

[Accumulator 52]

Reverse

[Accumulator 52]

Detail

[Peckris 579]

What it looks more like, is a damaged 8 (upper top loop) that was repunched. If it WAS a 3, it would be damaged in just the same way.

Very difficult to tell.

[declanwmagee 122]

Hi accumulator - I went through exactly the same thought process a few months back. If you find the thread "Coin acquisition of the week" and type "1858" into the search bar with "This topic" as the criterion, you'll find the discussion with good clear pics. Rob and John Argentum were very helpful as I recall...

[azda 979]

Whatever it is, its a nice coin. Now with the photo expansion with the iphone i can see obviously the top overstamped, also top inside right loop something in there and on the outside left, something there.

Unfortunately dunno what, not sure if it can be a 3 either with whatever is under the outside middle overstamp. A nice coin though

[azda 979]

Whats up with the right hand serif of the T in BRITANNIAR?

[Peckris 579]

Whatever it is, its a nice coin. Now with the photo expansion with the iphone i can see obviously the top overstamped, also top inside right loop something in there and on the outside left, something there.

Unfortunately dunno what, not sure if it can be a 3 either with whatever is under the outside middle overstamp. A nice coin though

If you re-read my post, you will see that it could be a damaged 8 OR a damaged 3 die - if it was a damaged 3 that might explain the re-use with an overstamp. Or a damaged 8 might have been overstamped if the die broke when still young.

[azda 979]

Whatever it is, its a nice coin. Now with the photo expansion with the iphone i can see obviously the top overstamped, also top inside right loop something in there and on the outside left, something there.

Unfortunately dunno what, not sure if it can be a 3 either with whatever is under the outside middle overstamp. A nice coin though

If you re-read my post, you will see that it could be a damaged 8 OR a damaged 3 die - if it was a damaged 3 that might explain the re-use with an overstamp. Or a damaged 8 might have been overstamped if the die broke when still young.

I read what you said Peck, but i don't think its an 8 either, mainly due to the date cutout picture where there's a noticable protrusion inbetween the centre of both loops on the outside on the left hand side, why would an 8 have a line jutting out? a 3s centre line could though

[argentumandcoins 70]

It just looks the 8 has been re-punched Steve and it has been punched slightly lower than the original.

The first and most obvious thing to strike you is the lack of WW from the truncation. For the die to be an earlier date than 1858 these initials must be there.

[Peckris 579]

Whatever it is, its a nice coin. Now with the photo expansion with the iphone i can see obviously the top overstamped, also top inside right loop something in there and on the outside left, something there.

Unfortunately dunno what, not sure if it can be a 3 either with whatever is under the outside middle overstamp. A nice coin though

If you re-read my post, you will see that it could be a damaged 8 OR a damaged 3 die - if it was a damaged 3 that might explain the re-use with an overstamp. Or a damaged 8 might have been overstamped if the die broke when still young.

I read what you said Peck, but i don't think its an 8 either, mainly due to the date cutout picture where there's a noticable protrusion inbetween the centre of both loops on the outside on the left hand side, why would an 8 have a line jutting out? a 3s centre line could though

I don't see that at all. I only see the faint shadow of the top left corner of the lower loop of an 8, corresponding to the fact that the overstamp is LOWER than the original. I'm talking about the clear cut on the very top of the underlying figure - which looks like it could be a broken die. Could be, not certain.