Krause 20th Century Catalogue Updates

[VickySilver 852]

Just a quick note and request. I think it good that Krause be a good catalogue (despite all the detractors), and especially for the 19th and 20th C. versions and note an aqcuaintance will be shortly submitting recommendations to them for the pre-decimal series. Do provide suggestions either through me, or him over on the PCGS boards in the Foreign and Ancient section - 7Jaguars is the poster, complete with rationale(s) and noting that their catalogue is for worldwide usage and not just the UK if that makes any sense.

I will note that their section on patterns seems much more complete than any other current source although sadly lacking pictures (IMO), but how prices can be determined for them would seem a bit more than just the usual challenge & the numbering seems to be candidate for improvement. I wish they would use ESC but seems they won't budge on that.

[Rob 3,152]

Just a quick note and request. I think it good that Krause be a good catalogue (despite all the detractors), and especially for the 19th and 20th C. versions and note an aqcuaintance will be shortly submitting recommendations to them for the pre-decimal series. Do provide suggestions either through me, or him over on the PCGS boards in the Foreign and Ancient section - 7Jaguars is the poster, complete with rationale(s) and noting that their catalogue is for worldwide usage and not just the UK if that makes any sense.

I will note that their section on patterns seems much more complete than any other current source although sadly lacking pictures (IMO), but how prices can be determined for them would seem a bit more than just the usual challenge & the numbering seems to be candidate for improvement. I wish they would use ESC but seems they won't budge on that.

Problem might be that not many use it. I use an old edition for world coin type reference rather than an up to date copy. Is there an online edition anywhere to see what is in the current volume? I know it probably goes against the grain, but a note after certain sections referring the reader to more comprehensive lists might be the easy option, just as Spink do for Elizabeth I for example. I know that doesn't give prices for the individual varieties, but there again neither does any other tome give anything other than a selection. Price are always going to be volatile in the case of patterns. Do you take auction prices or those after dealer markups? Baldwins prices in their recent lists are close to 50% up on the saleroom for the pieces they bought, though some are more reasonable. It's a bit of a conundrum.

As for Krause's numbering, it has always seemed a bit haphazard. Coincraft's numbering, while a bit more cumbersome, was at least logical whereby they used the monarch and denomination as the basis for their code.

[VickySilver 852]

As I understand it, the values listed are essentially mildly low estimate averages and not based on any one sale necessarily but with some correlation also to prices reached for other similar bits.

I too think some of the salesroom prices are unrealistically high; this was not always the case as in the mid-90s I bought many a piece from Spink and the SNC at seemed rather fair prices. Spink used to even bargain just a bit on occasion, but only to a tune of maybe 5% in the rare instance they would. Baldwin, with all due respect (and I am a fan of theirs and esp. their famous basement), seem a bit high unless a coin one simply has to have.

A difficulty for me is what, for example, a matte proof 1927 florin should go for. This is a prohibitively rare coin which there apparently are no sales auction or otherwise of it for at least 10 years, but demand is not that high either; however, if even two people wanted it that had some budget play, it might go for silly money. If there was only one bidder that day, it might not even reach a reserve or go very low. How then to set, or even attempt a catalogue value? Many say to just leave it blank but apparently users are put off by "Extremely Rare" or other such punts, and they like values listed. With regards to this coin, I like to think I know at least as much as the average joe about rarity and value and yet must give pause. If you stuck me for a quote today, I think I would say 2500 pounds or equivalent; and then the coin might come up for auction next week, and sell for 5k and critics would be hollering about inaccuracy, so no winners.

Still, I think it worthwhile and will give it a stab.

Here is another non-GB example: the infamous Franklin Mint struck legal tender coins for a number of countries, many of them from the Caribbean and quite a few issued in sets. However, they apparently also struck coins for circulation to the tune of tens of thousands in many instances and these coins did/do see usage. So in 1982 they struck a mule, possibly inadvertently with the obverse of one year and the reverse from the year before ($10 uncirculated coin). This coin did not go in a set and was evidently released through the Central Bank of Belize. Mintage: 3 only.

So not a special proof, or silver, or gold, definately a currency bit and even (Sacre bleu!!) analagous to the famous 1893 Jubilee Head Sixpence. Little demand, but almost no supply. Krause has this listed at 25USD. I would have to think such a coin should be listed at 10x that amount even conservatively, but no sales record & what to do.

The point is that it is quite difficult to determine value in many instances, and I have not even broached the thought of copper with "Red" , "Full Lustre", etc. What in the world might a reasonable suggestion be with regards to them (ie how about value for a full lustre gem or mint state 1926ME with very light toning)? I think I am beginning to see how it might be difficult to put out a catalogue!

[Rob 3,152]

The key to a good catalogue is not to put too much info in it. You only have to look at the early Anglo-Saxon sceats to see than an attempt to be more comprehensive has resulted in a section that is difficult to use. People want to see prices, but any attempt to be comprehensive is likely to result in rejection by the reader. Basically avoid any ext. rare references, but don't attempt to be over complicated.

[1949threepence 3,367]

The key to a good catalogue is not to put too much info in it. You only have to look at the early Anglo-Saxon sceats to see than an attempt to be more comprehensive has resulted in a section that is difficult to use. People want to see prices, but any attempt to be comprehensive is likely to result in rejection by the reader. Basically avoid any ext. rare references, but don't attempt to be over complicated.

Totally agree with that. Simplicity is definitely best in situations where people want straight facts and no superfluous frills.

Unfortunately all too rare in an age where everything has been made ludicrously long winded and needlessly complex.

[VickySilver 852]

OK, but just looking for how we might be able to give them some simple facts and statistics that might enrich the GB listings in their catalogue. Sometimes even though an exact evaluation is not possible it can give at least a "ballpark" idea of rarity and value.

I do appreciate your inputs as I do want to try to help.

[RLC35 288]

Just a quick note and request. I think it good that Krause be a good catalogue (despite all the detractors), and especially for the 19th and 20th C. versions and note an aqcuaintance will be shortly submitting recommendations to them for the pre-decimal series. Do provide suggestions either through me, or him over on the PCGS boards in the Foreign and Ancient section - 7Jaguars is the poster, complete with rationale(s) and noting that their catalogue is for worldwide usage and not just the UK if that makes any sense.

I will note that their section on patterns seems much more complete than any other current source although sadly lacking pictures (IMO), but how prices can be determined for them would seem a bit more than just the usual challenge & the numbering seems to be candidate for improvement. I wish they would use ESC but seems they won't budge on that.

Problem might be that not many use it. I use an old edition for world coin type reference rather than an up to date copy. Is there an online edition anywhere to see what is in the current volume? I know it probably goes against the grain, but a note after certain sections referring the reader to more comprehensive lists might be the easy option, just as Spink do for Elizabeth I for example. I know that doesn't give prices for the individual varieties, but there again neither does any other tome give anything other than a selection. Price are always going to be volatile in the case of patterns. Do you take auction prices or those after dealer markups? Baldwins prices in their recent lists are close to 50% up on the saleroom for the pieces they bought, though some are more reasonable. It's a bit of a conundrum.

As for Krause's numbering, it has always seemed a bit haphazard. Coincraft's numbering, while a bit more cumbersome, was at least logical whereby they used the monarch and denomination as the basis for their code.

Rob,

The current NGC website has a on-line pricing guide, that includes world coins. The pricing is current Krause pricing, and is provided to NGC by Krause. It is a free price guide.