London Coins Auction 3-4 December 2011

[1949threepence 3,367]

I've found one or two items but not enough to make it worth attending so will probably just submit a few e-mail bids, as previously.

Same here.

[Boomstick 0]

Do you have to register to bid, or do you just email them your details and bids?

[1949threepence 3,367]

Do you have to register to bid, or do you just email them your details and bids?

As far as I can tell, you just e mail your details and bid.

I don't think you have to register.

[Cerbera100 0]

Do you have to register to bid, or do you just email them your details and bids?

As far as I can tell, you just e mail your details and bid.

I don't think you have to register.

Yep, bidding is remarkably easy... getting an invoice out of them is a touch more complicated however!

[Accumulator 52]

Picked up one or two nice pennies today. Also pointed out a couple of attribution errors which was a little frustrating as I was looking for one of the coins in particular.

All in all, a well run sale with incredibly helpful and knowledgeable assistants conducting the viewings.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Picked up one or two nice pennies today. Also pointed out a couple of attribution errors which was a little frustrating as I was looking for one of the coins in particular.

All in all, a well run sale with incredibly helpful and knowledgeable assistants conducting the viewings.

A rare and welcome treat. Makes all the difference to your experience of the event.

[Accumulator 52]

I didn't win lot 1170 which was a CGS slabbed 1908 penny described as F165 with dies 2 + C, so intended to go for one of the two unslabbed coins on the Sunday. Once at the auction I inspected the two pennies and found they were incorrectly attributed and were actually 2 + D. Today I checked the photos of the slabbed 1908 and found that was incorrectly attributed too! That's a pretty fundamental mistake for CGS to make.

Interestingly, despite pointing out the error prior to auction of the two unslabbed coins and having their expert agree with me, they still went under the hammer without comment so someone is going to be disappointed!

Apart from the peck 1132, which was actually 1133, mentioned in another thread I discovered today that another purchase had been given the wrong Freeman reference. All a bit shoddy, despite my positive comments about the sale in general above.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Accumulator

[Rob 3,152]

I didn't win lot 1170 which was a CGS slabbed 1908 penny described as F165 with dies 2 + C, so intended to go for one of the two unslabbed coins on the Sunday. Once at the auction I inspected the two pennies and found they were incorrectly attributed and were actually 2 + D. Today I checked the photos of the slabbed 1908 and found that was incorrectly attributed too! That's a pretty fundamental mistake for CGS to make.

Interestingly, despite pointing out the error prior to auction of the two unslabbed coins and having their expert agree with me, they still went under the hammer without comment so someone is going to be disappointed!

Apart from the peck 1132, which was actually 1133, mentioned in another thread I discovered today that another purchase had been given the wrong Freeman reference. All a bit shoddy, despite my positive comments about the sale in general above.

Complain not and use the knowledge you have to your advantage. It's how you buy £10 notes for a fiver, whilst at the same time avoid paying £10 for a fiver.

[Peter 615]

Spot on Rob.

I've pointed out mistakes in museums many times,usually they don't seem too bothered.

I did tell one Ebay seller what he had...It was a William 1 1d and he had dated it by using the Seaby nr 1250 something (it was an inherited coin).

As with all auction houses,dealers and sellers if you know your subject and the research has been done you are top dog.

It would take me an age to attribute a load of Victorian Bun pennies....I've probably binned a few open 3's

[Accumulator 52]

Rob, Peter, I agree with you to a point. Mis-attributions by others are one of the ways we expand our collections at a reasonable cost. Certainly I'm not complaining over what I did pick up!

Of more concern is the significant error made by CGS on the slabbed 1908. If they are selling the ultimate authentification and grading service but they can't even make a fairly simple attribution (which as I understand is checked by at least two graders) then that' has to be a worry.

[Rob 3,152]

Rob, Peter, I agree with you to a point. Mis-attributions by others are one of the ways we expand our collections at a reasonable cost. Certainly I'm not complaining over what I did pick up!

Of more concern is the significant error made by CGS on the slabbed 1908. If they are selling the ultimate authentification and grading service but they can't even make a fairly simple attribution (which as I understand is checked by at least two graders) then that' has to be a worry.

Which is what has been said all along. The value of a third party's opinion is worth the paper it's written on and nothing more. You always have to buy the coin and not the slab because you can have little faith in the label. The denomination might be correct, your and their grading might be the same, the variety if mentioned on the label might be correct. The word might crops up far too often for the slab to have any significant value added. It protects the coin and not much more - a feature that doesn't turn a 50p coin into a £20 one.

In a nutshell, recognise an indifferent business idea for what it is. If people want to have their hand held and be given peace of mind, then let them. Do not expect all round acceptance though and certainly don't expect people who are quite capable of grading and identification to pay someone a significant sum for doing what they can already do themselves. It is aimed at the uninitiated and that is who it should remain with.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Rob

[Colin G. 147]

Spot on Rob.

I've pointed out mistakes in museums many times,usually they don't seem too bothered.

I did tell one Ebay seller what he had...It was a William 1 1d and he had dated it by using the Seaby nr 1250 something (it was an inherited coin).

As with all auction houses,dealers and sellers if you know your subject and the research has been done you are top dog.

It would take me an age to attribute a load of Victorian Bun pennies....I've probably binned a few open 3's

And spot on Peter, that is the beauty of specialising in a series, you get to know exactly what you are looking for without hesitation. This is where you really start to reap the rewards of your efforts. As Rob has said understanding your area of collecting is essential, understanding wear patterns, striking issues, key features, inaccuracies of rarity etc. really make the difference.

When I think back to some of my purchases that were incorrectly attributed....and a few were from big auction houses and well known dealers... .....just waiting for someone to step in and say I have sold them a misattributed rarity now

Do CGS offer the same guarantees as the US TPG's regarding misattribution? Mind you we found out what that guarantee was worth a while back with the "ahem" mule

[Colin G. 147]

Today I checked the photos of the slabbed 1908 and found that was incorrectly attributed too! That's a pretty fundamental mistake for CGS to make.

If that was my business, I would want to know, so that I could check back and see who was responsible....it is the single most important aspect of that business. Grading is subjective, classification is not!! I know mistakes are inevitable in any walk of life, but where double and triple checks are involved...mistakes should be almost non-existant.

[Rob 3,152]

And spot on Peter, that is the beauty of specialising in a series, you get to know exactly what you are looking for without hesitation. This is where you really start to reap the rewards of your efforts. As Rob has said understanding your area of collecting is essential, understanding wear patterns, striking issues, key features, inaccuracies of rarity etc. really make the difference.

When I think back to some of my purchases that were incorrectly attributed....and a few were from big auction houses and well known dealers... .....just waiting for someone to step in and say I have sold them a misattributed rarity now

Do CGS offer the same guarantees as the US TPG's regarding misattribution? Mind you we found out what that guarantee was worth a while back with the "ahem" mule

Yep. It can save you a minimum of tens of pounds, but sometimes hundreds or even thousands. That's another coin or two for the collection

[1949threepence 3,367]

Spot on Rob.

I've pointed out mistakes in museums many times,usually they don't seem too bothered.

I did tell one Ebay seller what he had...It was a William 1 1d and he had dated it by using the Seaby nr 1250 something (it was an inherited coin).

As with all auction houses,dealers and sellers if you know your subject and the research has been done you are top dog.

It would take me an age to attribute a load of Victorian Bun pennies....I've probably binned a few open 3's

It's one thing spotting a mis-attribution. It's quite another getting it rectified after pointing it out. As with other areas of life, people seem unwilling to take it on board when their errors are pointed out, even if supported by hard evidence.

[Accumulator 52]

Spot on Rob.

I've pointed out mistakes in museums many times,usually they don't seem too bothered.

I did tell one Ebay seller what he had...It was a William 1 1d and he had dated it by using the Seaby nr 1250 something (it was an inherited coin).

As with all auction houses,dealers and sellers if you know your subject and the research has been done you are top dog.

It would take me an age to attribute a load of Victorian Bun pennies....I've probably binned a few open 3's

It's one thing spotting a mis-attribution. It's quite another getting it rectified after pointing it out. As with other areas of life, people seem unwilling to take it on board when their errors are pointed out, even if supported by hard evidence.

I have dropped CGS an email pointing out the error and will be interested to see if I get a reply. I don't really mind as I didn't buy the coin but am still curious to hear their response.