Auctioneers Bidding-Up Absentee Bids?

[Rob 3,152]

Why is it only auction houses and Martin Platt get book prices or more for coins.

Any auctions i watch on fleabay are always wayyyyyy under book prices for rarer or decent graded coins (i can hear John Stephenson now when i say BOOK PRICES) but auction houses seem to work via Spinks book.

(i can hear John Stephenson now when i say BOOK PRICES)

And I would agree with him, don't get too focused on the price books, if you are telling me that compared to auction houses on a specific coin, similar grade coins are selling for less on ebay, then buy them on ebay if you want one, and sell them through the auction house if you have one to sell

I think it is too easy to assume that you are comparing similar items.

But if you are comparing similar items the above guidance would make perfect sense

It's just that on eBay you always have that nagging doubt that what you are bidding on isn't all it's claimed to be. Sure you can always try returning items, but it's hassle you can do without, so you don't bid strongly unless you are certain of what is on offer. By definition that means a common coin can always be bought elsewhere when you see one and are happy with the price/grade as seen in the hand. A real rarity will be recognised as a particular example with a likely provenance of sorts and so if two people are armed with the same info you have a real competition, otherwise it's caveat emptor. If you have done your homework, you will be aware of the selling prices for this coin or other examples, but if in doubt you will nearly always err on the side of caution - that's just common sense.

[Coinery 1,153]

So, would I be right in thinking that auction houses are typically realising book prices for their lots (on average, that is...some above, some below, etc.)? Are we talking spink prices here? I've yet to get on the floor of an auction house. I was hoping to place a few absentee bids about the place. However, I think the general consensus is NO!

[azda 979]

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

[Rob 3,152]

So, would I be right in thinking that auction houses are typically realising book prices for their lots (on average, that is...some above, some below, etc.)? Are we talking spink prices here? I've yet to get on the floor of an auction house. I was hoping to place a few absentee bids about the place. However, I think the general consensus is NO!

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

People seem to forget that book prices may or may not be relevant. Just because Spink says it should be a certain price, doesn't mean it is correct. Any given price can be over or under reality - you simply have to do your homework to find out what is an appropriate amount to bid. Some salerooms realise higher prices than others, but that may reflect the confidence that bidders have in the cataloguing, or alternatively, some auction houses build up a reputation in a particular field. The location of the sale will also be determined by the contents. You only ever get general foreign sales in this country, but if you want to collect the coinage of Baden-Wurttemburg for exampe, you would go to Germany for a sale. This means that higher or lower prices may be realised for what is nominally the same thing depending on the location.

I don't see why you wouldn't put in an absentee bid because you will either win it or lose it. If you know what prices are in general, then whether you win will depend on the demand in the room on the day. If you don't win it doesn't cause a major problem because you can always try for the next one. If you don't get a rare and desirable piece because your bid was too miserly, then tough. If you know something is worth more than book and you want it, then bid it up because you may rest assured someone else will. If you are confident in the cataloguer, then the rest is up to you.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Rob

[Peter 615]

Just bid your maximum price you would be happy to pay for the coin.Disregard pricing books.If you have an interest in a coin and you have done your homework you will know far more than some poor bod at Spink or the auction house.

[Coinery 1,153]

Two great preceding posts, thank-you! And a massive thanks to every contribution into this enquiry, a superb insight into the original question, thanks again, Stuart

[Rob 3,152]

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

Part of the problem here is that Spink can never be more than a general guide. It states quite clearly that the indicated price is for the commoonest type. If you get a rarity though, the price may exceed that listed many fold. If you are into anything even vaguely esoteric, the only solution is to do your homework.

I quite like patterns and proofs, I also collected halfpenies and shillings as preferred denominations. Spink list those items found in the sets together with a handful of other items, but the entries are patchy and the lists inconsistent. Supposedly they don't include patterns, but then list the 1807 prof 1/2d, which is of course a pattern as it was never produced at Soho. To take this point further, they list prices in FDC, but in the case of the 1807 silver and gold proof 1/2ds, neither of these coins (both of which appear to be unique) are FDC. They are both better than EF, but not mint state, so why not quote the prices paid for the real thing? It is both a mess and a minefield out there, and the only safe way is to be self-sufficient.

[coin watch 1]

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

Part of the problem here is that Spink can never be more than a general guide. It states quite clearly that the indicated price is for the commoonest type. If you get a rarity though, the price may exceed that listed many fold. If you are into anything even vaguely esoteric, the only solution is to do your homework.

So true regarding Spink base pricing, a prime example of this that I know of is Spink 2766, the 1a3 type Charles I half crown is found with the cross calvary mint mark on (for what I have seen) 95% of the coins (about 20% lightweights) available, so while still a scarce coin the 'book' price is a good guide for this coin, but the negro head mark also listed under 2766 is known on only 3 coins held in private hands whilst the castle on only 2 known privately, compare this to the same mark on the type 1b (with plume- S.2767) it becomes very clear how rare these coins are but only recognized with further study. So while the Spink guide is well regarded it's worth remembering it is just that 'a guide'

[Rob 3,152]

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

Part of the problem here is that Spink can never be more than a general guide. It states quite clearly that the indicated price is for the commoonest type. If you get a rarity though, the price may exceed that listed many fold. If you are into anything even vaguely esoteric, the only solution is to do your homework.

So true regarding Spink base pricing, a prime example of this that I know of is Spink 2766, the 1a3 type Charles I half crown is found with the cross calvary mint mark on (for what I have seen) 95% of the coins (about 20% lightweights) available, so while still a scarce coin the 'book' price is a good guide for this coin, but the negro head mark also listed under 2766 is known on only 3 coins held in private hands whilst the castle on only 2 known privately, compare this to the same mark on the type 1b (with plume- S.2767) it becomes very clear how rare these coins are but only recognized with further study. So while the Spink guide is well regarded it's worth remembering it is just that 'a guide'

The same principle applies to most Spink numbers where it covers a range of marks because one mark is invariably more or less common than the next.

You and Tom will probably remember the E2/3 I picked up about 5 years ago with the tun mark, over crown on the obverse. We are still on 5 straight tuns and 2 over crowns in total despite much catalogue searching and racking of brains. Compared with the number of bells and crowns available with the plume over shield reverse, a single figure number is peanuts.

[coin watch 1]

Some auction houses are exceeding spink prices. Maybe Take a look through some of the more prominent auction houses results from their paar sales this year

Part of the problem here is that Spink can never be more than a general guide. It states quite clearly that the indicated price is for the commoonest type. If you get a rarity though, the price may exceed that listed many fold. If you are into anything even vaguely esoteric, the only solution is to do your homework.

So true regarding Spink base pricing, a prime example of this that I know of is Spink 2766, the 1a3 type Charles I half crown is found with the cross calvary mint mark on (for what I have seen) 95% of the coins (about 20% lightweights) available, so while still a scarce coin the 'book' price is a good guide for this coin, but the negro head mark also listed under 2766 is known on only 3 coins held in private hands whilst the castle on only 2 known privately, compare this to the same mark on the type 1b (with plume- S.2767) it becomes very clear how rare these coins are but only recognized with further study. So while the Spink guide is well regarded it's worth remembering it is just that 'a guide'

The same principle applies to most Spink numbers where it covers a range of marks because one mark is invariably more or less common than the next.

You and Tom will probably remember the E2/3 I picked up about 5 years ago with the tun mark, over crown on the obverse. We are still on 5 straight tuns and 2 over crowns in total despite much catalogue searching and racking of brains. Compared with the number of bells and crowns available with the plume over shield reverse, a single figure number is peanuts.

I do indeed remember your E2/3 tun over crown, extremely rare. Another example of this is also S.2794 the F1/1, this coin is noted by Spink as being available with the large XII value mark but to date only 6 (known) coins have the large mark, 3 each of the tun and anchor mark, this probably represents about 1% of the F1/1 coins available, again not very well known.