No Date 20P Worth a buy?

[coppercop 0]

I see a seller has a so-called "mule" undated 20 Pence in XF condition...curious how uncommon these are, and, worth a purchase?

Thank You for your time

Cal

[bagerap 706]

After the press induced frenzy, the price of these has crept inexorably south. I bought one on commission before Christmas for £35.00, which is probably just a shade too high.

[Peter 615]

I see a seller has a so-called "mule" undated 20 Pence in XF condition...curious how uncommon these are, and, worth a purchase?

Thank You for your time

Cal

There are 200,000 out there serving 2,000 people who actually want one and another 20,000 punters who want a fast buck.Look at 1951 pennies there are probably 119,950 surviving of which 119,000 are UNC.They were £30 in 1965 and about £30 today.Buy an 18C coin avoiding 1758 1/- 1787 6d & 1/- any Lima coins...or maybe a book...investing in coins is very easy

[Generic Lad 25]

Yep, if you collect 20p varieties or post-decimal coins it might be worth looking into, but if you are hoping for it to be an investment... It won't be in our lifetimes. Coins that will increase in value are expensive now and will continue to be expensive. There are very few modern coins that will stand the test of time and really increase in value. Aside from people receiving errors and die varieties in their pocket change (1955 US doubled-die wheat penny, 1943 copper US cent) that immediately went for high prices and kept their momentum, no one in modern terms have managed to really buy low and sell high when it comes to coins, rather, you buy high and sell higher.

People looking to make investments in modern coins often fail. The coins that will perform well tomorrow are already performing well today. Mintage only tells half the story, demand tells the other half. Look at the 1916-D Mercury dime, even in the US "almost good" and lower end "good" grades, the coin sells for well over $500. The coin has a mintage of 264,000 but due to its high demand, it sells more than coins with lower mintages. For example, the 1914 George V Maundy set has a mintage of only 982 sets, but it only has a book value of ~£155.00 in uncirculated because of lower demand for Maundy coins when compared to the US 1916-D dime.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Generic Lad

[Peckris 579]

I see a seller has a so-called "mule" undated 20 Pence in XF condition...curious how uncommon these are, and, worth a purchase?

Thank You for your time

Cal

There are 200,000 out there serving 2,000 people who actually want one and another 20,000 punters who want a fast buck.Look at 1951 pennies there are probably 119,950 surviving of which 119,000 are UNC.They were £30 in 1965 and about £30 today.Buy an 18C coin avoiding 1758 1/- 1787 6d & 1/- any Lima coins...or maybe a book...investing in coins is very easy

I agree with your analysis Peter, but not with that part - although those are the commonest coins of their era by far (plus the 1754 farthing, 1775 halfpenny, 1806 halfpenny, and several others), they are not nearly so common in high grade; they are well worth a punt in EF or better, and their increasing prices over the years proves that.

[ski 1]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

[headsortails 8]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

look at price of these coins going though ebay if you have any for sale for 30 quid contact me,these coin are real Collectors

items and should not be rubished,same if you have any 1971 double headed half pence coins for 30 quid .keep them and enjoy them

that's what is's all about.

[Peckris 579]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

look at price of these coins going though ebay if you have any for sale for 30 quid contact me,these coin are real Collectors

items and should not be rubished,same if you have any 1971 double headed half pence coins for 30 quid .keep them and enjoy them

that's what is's all about.

Many here would disagree - and would probably refer to them as ridiculously overhyped items that were minted in (as they now estimate) hundreds of thousands. They've probably not even now descended to their true level. On the other hand they may have, but I'm not about to wait around and find out. The sheer numbers that have appeared on eBay shows how non-rare they truly are.

Worth pulling from change of course, but not IMO worth paying good money for.

[headsortails 8]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

look at price of these coins going though ebay if you have any for sale for 30 quid contact me,these coin are real Collectors

items and should not be rubished,same if you have any 1971 double headed half pence coins for 30 quid .keep them and enjoy them

that's what is's all about.

Many here would disagree - and would probably refer to them as ridiculously overhyped items that were minted in (as they now estimate) hundreds of thousands. They've probably not even now descended to their true level. On the other hand they may have, but I'm not about to wait around and find out. The sheer numbers that have appeared on eBay shows how non-rare they truly are.

Worth pulling from change of course, but not IMO worth paying good money for.

O let's see shall i, have a coin from my pocket, what a silly coin it is, what shall i do with it,i think i will throw it away,ye wat ever.

[Rob 3,152]

It's worth paying money for if you can sell it for more than you paid.

[headsortails 8]

It's worth paying money for if you can sell it for more than you paid.

sorry thught this forum was about coin's sould have gone to the stock market

[coin watch 1]

It's also worth paying money for if you like the coin and more importantly your hobby. Forget the investment side of things unless you are a coin dealer.

I remember when this was a hobby!!!

[Rob 3,152]

It's also worth paying money for if you like the coin and more importantly your hobby. Forget the investment side of things unless you are a coin dealer.

I remember when this was a hobby!!!

It still is.

However, how many people on this forum don't sell on their surplus coins or buy an obvious bargain with a view to selling it on to fund another coin? Very few I suspect.

[Coinery 1,153]

I see a seller has a so-called "mule" undated 20 Pence in XF condition...curious how uncommon these are, and, worth a purchase?

Thank You for your time

Cal

There are 200,000 out there serving 2,000 people who actually want one and another 20,000 punters who want a fast buck.Look at 1951 pennies there are probably 119,950 surviving of which 119,000 are UNC.They were £30 in 1965 and about £30 today.Buy an 18C coin avoiding 1758 1/- 1787 6d & 1/- any Lima coins...or maybe a book...investing in coins is very easy

Hi Peter,

I'm curious, is that really the coin market, just 2000? Or is that just the number of decimal collectors out there? I'm not questioning, but genuinely interested in the sources of these kind of statistics, as you will have probably picked up from some of my previous posts.

[Coinery 1,153]

It's worth paying money for if you can sell it for more than you paid.

sorry thught this forum was about coin's sould have gone to the stock market

Isn't the inherent value/investment, and the swings and roundabouts of the prices, part of the whole experience of collecting? If you use a price guide to make a decision about how much to pay for a coin that you add to your collection, no matter how humble a purchase, then you too, even if unknowingly, are part of what makes the investment side of collecting coins what it is.

[coin watch 1]

It's also worth paying money for if you like the coin and more importantly your hobby. Forget the investment side of things unless you are a coin dealer.

I remember when this was a hobby!!!

It still is.

However, how many people on this forum don't sell on their surplus coins or buy an obvious bargain with a view to selling it on to fund another coin? Very few I suspect.

I totally agree when it comes to buying and selling within the coins you collect, upgardes or coins not up to expectations its to be expected, but to buy something in the hope of a better return is something one should be careful of if you know little about it, or a new offering like the udated 20p.

[Rob 3,152]

It's worth paying money for if you can sell it for more than you paid.

sorry thught this forum was about coin's sould have gone to the stock market

Isn't the inherent value/investment, and the swings and roundabouts of the prices, part of the whole experience of collecting? If you use a price guide to make a decision about how much to pay for a coin that you add to your collection, no matter how humble a purchase, then you too, even if unknowingly, are part of what makes the investment side of collecting coins what it is.

Correct. All purchases are based on some sort of price appraisal whether it is market knowledge based or just taken out of a price guide. Some you will pay too much for and some you will underpay relative to your expected outlay. Some you will pay over the odds because you need a specific item to fill a hole and it is unlikely another will come along anytine soon. There are many reasons for buying coins and selling them on to fund other purchases is just one of them. If you collect any field and a coin within your criteria that sells for £50 is on eBay at a fiver, you will buy it because it is underpriced even if you have one. You may well recycle it on ebay starting at a tenner having first checked if it is better than the existing coin in the collection, but the reason for the initial purchase was that it represented unquestionable value for money. It makes the initial outlay go further and you are happy because you have enhanced the collection or can do so in the future.

[Cerbera100 0]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

look at price of these coins going though ebay if you have any for sale for 30 quid contact me,these coin are real Collectors

items and should not be rubished,same if you have any 1971 double headed half pence coins for 30 quid .keep them and enjoy them

that's what is's all about.

Many here would disagree - and would probably refer to them as ridiculously overhyped items that were minted in (as they now estimate) hundreds of thousands. They've probably not even now descended to their true level. On the other hand they may have, but I'm not about to wait around and find out. The sheer numbers that have appeared on eBay shows how non-rare they truly are.

Worth pulling from change of course, but not IMO worth paying good money for.

O let's see shall i, have a coin from my pocket, what a silly coin it is, what shall i do with it,i think i will throw it away,ye wat ever.

I think the point that Peck was making is that these undated mules have been massively over-hyped on eBay, in the press and by certain less-than-scrupulous coin merchants. At no point in the next 500 years will these coins be worth the several hundred pounds that some people originally paid for them, and you'll be lucky to get much more than your money back on £50 in the same time-frame!

I have bolded the pertinent phrase in Peck's post - the part which you seem to have completely ignored! Of course if the lady in Tesco hands me one in my change I'm going to pull it out, and I might even consider a £15-20 punt on ebay but no more than that!

As an aside - you say about silly coins lets throw them away... a friend of mine has an almost phobia-esque reaction to 5p coins and actually does throw them away... to the point where he got us barred from a pub in Exeter when he hit the landlord with one!

[Peckris 579]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

ive got a few of those 1787 6d's, hearts and no hearts......i like em

look at price of these coins going though ebay if you have any for sale for 30 quid contact me,these coin are real Collectors

items and should not be rubished,same if you have any 1971 double headed half pence coins for 30 quid .keep them and enjoy them

that's what is's all about.

Many here would disagree - and would probably refer to them as ridiculously overhyped items that were minted in (as they now estimate) hundreds of thousands. They've probably not even now descended to their true level. On the other hand they may have, but I'm not about to wait around and find out. The sheer numbers that have appeared on eBay shows how non-rare they truly are.

Worth pulling from change of course, but not IMO worth paying good money for.

O let's see shall i, have a coin from my pocket, what a silly coin it is, what shall i do with it,i think i will throw it away,ye wat ever.

I think the point that Peck was making is that these undated mules have been massively over-hyped on eBay, in the press and by certain less-than-scrupulous coin merchants. At no point in the next 500 years will these coins be worth the several hundred pounds that some people originally paid for them, and you'll be lucky to get much more than your money back on £50 in the same time-frame!

I have bolded the pertinent phrase in Peck's post - the part which you seem to have completely ignored! Of course if the lady in Tesco hands me one in my change I'm going to pull it out, and I might even consider a £15-20 punt on ebay but no more than that!

As an aside - you say about silly coins lets throw them away... a friend of mine has an almost phobia-esque reaction to 5p coins and actually does throw them away... to the point where he got us barred from a pub in Exeter when he hit the landlord with one!

Thanks - yes, that's the precise point I was making. In years to come it will be seen just how ludicrous it is, that a coin with the estimated mintage of a 1950 penny (itself hyped to high heaven in its day, yet being a date scarcity is more essential than the 20p mule) should be sold on eBay at such vastly inflated prices, and even now - at £60 - rates higher than the now-accepted 1950 penny. The internet and eBay have much to answer for, in terms of hype.

On the other hand, the internet does allow us to have these lively and friendly discussions from the warmth and privacy of our own living rooms!

[ski 1]

ive got 2 that i got from change, i wouldnt buy one but these 2 wont be going back into my change.

i wouldnt want to sell for £30 quid as offered, theyre different to regular issues for sure, im happy to keep them as such. to me their still just worth 20p, i would like to ask mr headsandtails did he misunderstand the replies to the original question?

The internet and eBay have much to answer for, in terms of hype.

On the other hand, the internet does allow us to have these lively and friendly discussions from the warmth and privacy of our own living rooms!

magpies and jedi's equally

[Red Riley 2]

As an aside - you say about silly coins lets throw them away... a friend of mine has an almost phobia-esque reaction to 5p coins and actually does throw them away... to the point where he got us barred from a pub in Exeter when he hit the landlord with one!

A massive tangent here, but that is said to be why there are so many Roman 'minims' around. Your landlord in Isca Dumnoniorum was the victim of a nigh on 2000 year old tradition!