John short cross ?

[seuk 85]

Bought the following as a contemporary counterfeit of Henry II - but I'm not sure if it isn't really a genuine coin? There's no trace of plating and to me it looks as low quality silver (weight 1.3gr). Due to double strike its a little difficult reading but as far I can see its:

Obverse: HENRICVS REX

Reverse: HENRI ON LV?

The R seem to have a small tab at top which should be class 5a-5b and the regular S will make it 5b hence King John (spink 1351)

As I'm not familiar with these coins I would appreciate any opinion.

[Rob 3,152]

Bought the following as a contemporary counterfeit of Henry II - but I'm not sure if it isn't really a genuine coin? There's no trace of plating and to me it looks as low quality silver (weight 1.3gr). Due to double strike its a little difficult reading but as far I can see its:

Obverse: HENRICVS REX

Reverse: HENRI ON LV?

The R seem to have a small tab at top which should be class 5a-5b and the regular S will make it 5b hence King John (spink 1351)

As I'm not familiar with these coins I would appreciate any opinion.

The reverse looks a bit odd. The initial cross on the reverse is suspect as is the ON with the disjointed diagonal bar and I'm not sure about the straight bar on the closed E of HENRI. Having said that, it is double struck, so you can get odd looking letters as a result. Clive might have a large enough selection of short cross from this moneyer to die link if possible as they are quite common. I'm afraid I've only got one example of a John which is a 5b1/5a2 and the reverse is double struck, though it is an enigmatic coin where the reverse reads IOHAN ON LUND, which is thought to be a mistake for either a Canterbury or an East Anglian mint signature. The 5b has a pelleted S which helps identification. Pics attached if they are of any use.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Rob

[Peter 615]

I've had a look but the double strike has thrown me.These beggers are hard enough with a single crisp strike.

As Rob has said Clive may help...also don't forget Geordie.I'Ding monarchs/monyers/classes would suit debating societies.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Peter

[Geordie582 18]

Thanks for the recommendation Peter, but shortcross pennies are not my field really. Clive is a better bet. But, having said that, I'll have a punt at 5b2 just going on the position of the lettering and the rather wiry letters. Also the 'S' & 'R' forms. The obverse is a real mess and I've taken divine inspiration from Wren!!

[seuk 85]

Thanks all for info I do have a weakness for coins of almost identical design and long period of minting like the Short Cross and the Edward penny. But I guess there's little chance of new discoveries in these fields or am I wrong?

[Peter 615]

Thanks all for info I do have a weakness for coins of almost identical design and long period of minting like the Short Cross and the Edward penny. But I guess there's little chance of new discoveries in these fields or am I wrong?

I'm sure there are undiscovered varieties nestling in the soil of every county.

[seuk 85]

Thanks all for info I do have a weakness for coins of almost identical design and long period of minting like the Short Cross and the Edward penny. But I guess there's little chance of new discoveries in these fields or am I wrong?

I'm sure there are undiscovered varieties nestling in the soil of every county.

So one doesn't have to gather at least 2,000 coins before perhaps being lucky to discover an unknown die link...