1723 FRENCH ARMS SHILLING

[chris 0]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

[argentumandcoins 70]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

Just an error Chris, a scarce error though.

[chris 0]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

Just an error Chris, a scarce error though.

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

[TomGoodheart 403]

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

Yeah, I never figured out why that is. The initials are after all of the South Seas Company, whose (Indonesian) silver was used to make the coins. But C SS it reads ...

Nice find!

[chris 0]

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

Yeah, I never figured out why that is. The initials are after all of the South Seas Company, whose (Indonesian) silver was used to make the coins. But C SS it reads ...

Nice find!

thanks

its a very interesting piece, me thinks that the inside of the coin was inscribed correct including what should be ss c but the outer lettering was 90 degrees off the mark

[azda 979]

Can we ask what you paid for it?

[chris 0]

Can we ask what you paid for it?

well...

il say it was less than £100

wasnt described as a french arms though and the obverse does have some really old scratches to the bust only but i suppose it is the reverse that is more important

[chris 0]

Can we ask what you paid for it?

Edited March 30, 2012 by chris

[Peckris 579]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

Just an error Chris, a scarce error though.

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

No, that IS SSC - the initials stand for South Sea Company.

[Rob 3,152]

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

Yeah, I never figured out why that is. The initials are after all of the South Seas Company, whose (Indonesian) silver was used to make the coins. But C SS it reads ...

Nice find!

thanks

its a very interesting piece, me thinks that the inside of the coin was inscribed correct including what should be ss c but the outer lettering was 90 degrees off the mark

CSS or SSC depends on how you read it. With the date at 12 o'clock, the French Arms at date reads SSC across the top. On the regular one, starting at 12 o'clock and reading clockwise it also reads SS C SS C. Was the C/SS a recut die or just an error correction? That needs to be checked out.

Is the die axis inverted as normal for coins of this era? I ask because we can deduce the die was made with a square spiggot from the William III transposed errors, one of which has the date at 9 o'clock, but in that case the only arms in the correct position are the French ones.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Rob

[azda 979]

Well, here's another.......Graded as VF (not by me) but may help the cause

[Paulus 1,975]

Well, here's another.......Graded as VF (not by me) but may help the cause

Is this major variety listed anywhere?

[azda 979]

Well, here's another.......Graded as VF (not by me) but may help the cause

Is this major variety listed anywhere?

ESC 1177 (R2 Rated = Very Rare) and Spink 3647

[chris 0]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

Just an error Chris, a scarce error though.

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

No, that IS SSC - the initials stand for South Sea Company.

sorry Peckris,

what i meant is that the normal coin starts on the first quarter on SS or South Sea.

The second quarter display,s a letter C for Company

if you were to read my example from the date as a normal example, it,s then read C, then SS

[chris 0]

Is the die axis inverted as normal for coins of this era? I ask because we can deduce the die was made with a square spiggot from the William III transposed errors, one of which has the date at 9 o'clock, but in that case the only arms in the correct position are the French ones.

[argentumandcoins 70]

Well, here's another.......Graded as VF (not by me) but may help the cause

Is this major variety listed anywhere?

ESC 1177 (R2 Rated = Very Rare) and Spink 3647

I think Rayner was a little optimistic on his rarity rating for both this and the C/SS variety. I have sold 3 of each in the last 5 years and I didn't go out of my way to find any of them.

[Peckris 579]

Morning all

i havnt been here for a good while but im back!!!!

i have aquired a George II 1723 shilling with the french arms at the date, instead of the Engish arms

does anyone know the reason why this was done as i cannot find any information regarding this

thanks all

Just an error Chris, a scarce error though.

ahh an error, just looking, i made an error as well George I not II

also the ssc is actually css

No, that IS SSC - the initials stand for South Sea Company.

sorry Peckris,

what i meant is that the normal coin starts on the first quarter on SS or South Sea.

The second quarter display,s a letter C for Company

if you were to read my example from the date as a normal example, it,s then read C, then SS

Ah, it depends on how you read what has happened. If you decide that only the sceptres have been rotated through 90º CCW, then you're right - the SS C are in the wrong place. However if you assume that the entire centre design has been rotated with respect to the legend and date (which is the more logical assumption), then that includes the SS C which are therefore in the correct relative position. In other words, they are correct in relation to the English arms, rather than the date.