St. James's Auction

[Accumulator 52]

Anyone pick up anything in the sale today? I was interested in two lots but decided against one of them after closer inspection. I did get the VIP 1935 proof penny though , for which I found it very difficult to get comparative pricing. Freeman has it as R18.

[VickySilver 830]

Evidently, these are rare. I have never been convinced that the true rarity of coins stated as R18 or R19 is really at that level, especially when it comes to proofs of the VIP type. Many of them may have mintages that may range up to 10 or 20 easily IMO.

Evidently the Lot 444 was a bogus VIP 1937 proof, akin to some of the bits sold on ebay some years ago by a seller in Gibralter.

[Gary D 76]

Evidently the Lot 444 was a bogus VIP 1937 proof, akin to some of the bits sold on ebay some years ago by a seller in Gibralter.

I put a couple of bids on the 1905 shilling but let it go as I was really after the 1937 VIP crown. Got blown out of the water.....luckily by the looks of it.

[Accumulator 52]

Evidently, these are rare. I have never been convinced that the true rarity of coins stated as R18 or R19 is really at that level, especially when it comes to proofs of the VIP type. Many of them may have mintages that may range up to 10 or 20 easily IMO.

Evidently the Lot 444 was a bogus VIP 1937 proof, akin to some of the bits sold on ebay some years ago by a seller in Gibralter.

I agree, it does sound reasonable to suppose there must have been 10 or so full sets minted and this is what Freeman based his R18 on. However, for 1935, I've been completely unable to find either an individual penny, or a full set containing a penny, having been offered or sold. I checked all the usual on-line sources and only found crowns (lots of them), a couple of halfpennies, a florin and a half-crown. I guess the RM could confirm.

[Nick 329]

Anyone pick up anything in the sale today? I was interested in two lots but decided against one of them after closer inspection. I did get the VIP 1935 proof penny though , for which I found it very difficult to get comparative pricing. Freeman has it as R18.

I was interested in the 1869 shilling and the 1882 sixpence, but both went out of my reach.

[VickySilver 830]

Hmm, I do not always take stock in RM records, although Dyer is an excellent source (was?) for many things. I have seen by recall two other 1935 penny proofs outside of museums. So how many others are they as surely I have not seen all, and I do not think they were the same coin as this? I have not made a special point of collecting them but do have a 1936 that came with a proof set. I can not prove the point but believe that there were coins of this vintage released as part of larger sets, and also individually. Some silver sets seem to have made it out sans the copper lesser bits, and may have also been released in single and set form but can not prove that either.

Good luck on finding VIP Record proofs in dealer stocks as in my experience there are not too many there and most are tied up in the museums or in collections.

[Accumulator 52]

Here's my new 1935 VIP proof penny (photographed through the slightly scratched NGC slab). The seller was US-based, so the coin has come home - the downside of which is I had to pay import duty, but never mind!

I've still been unable to find another one, though no doubt they exist somewhere.

[Rob 3,152]

1935 proof halfpennies are equally evasive. I notice that Peck listed both penny and halfpenny at Baldwin's, though there wasn't an example when they cleaned out the basement 5 or 6 years ago. I bought my halfpenny in London Coins March 2006 sale, but there wasn't a penny to complement it. Interestingly graded in that sale as nFDC as in reality it's brilliant and virtually as struck. It's also noteworthy that Norweb had neither denomination of this date, because she had most other years.

[VickySilver 830]

Hmmm, I believe Northeast coins has had the bronze set in proof 1/4d through 1d. I have another reference somewhere as well - now if I can just get my three year old to pipe down long enough for me to row through some old catalogues!

[Accumulator 52]

1935 proof halfpennies are equally evasive. I notice that Peck listed both penny and halfpenny at Baldwin's, though there wasn't an example when they cleaned out the basement 5 or 6 years ago. I bought my halfpenny in London Coins March 2006 sale, but there wasn't a penny to complement it. Interestingly graded in that sale as nFDC as in reality it's brilliant and virtually as struck. It's also noteworthy that Norweb had neither denomination of this date, because she had most other years.

Thanks for that background info Rob! I'd noticed a couple of halfpennies myself so assume the complementary pennies must be around somewhere. Interesting to note that Norweb had neither though.

[Rob 3,152]

There wasn't one in the Adams and Parry collections either.

Thinking out loud, I'm wondering if there are a few long sets tied up in private hands given the special crown issued that year in conjunction with George V's Silver Jubilee.

[Rob 3,152]

I need an optician. Norweb did have a 1935 proof penny and halfpenny - as part of a full year set (Part 3, 19/11/1986 lot 1131, bought by Spink on commission for £1200). Doh. More importantly, your penny was from that set so you have a provenance confirmed by the fingermark and spot on the reverse. My halfpenny is from a different set though.

[Accumulator 52]

I need an optician. Norweb did have a 1935 proof penny and halfpenny - as part of a full year set (Part 3, 19/11/1986 lot 1131, bought by Spink on commission for £1200). Doh. More importantly, your penny was from that set so you have a provenance confirmed by the fingermark and spot on the reverse. My halfpenny is from a different set though.

You're a star Rob!! So it's a Norweb penny... my first (to my knowledge). I'll update the note on my website. Thank you!

[Accumulator 52]

Rob, could you confirm the Spink sale number please? Ocassionally the catalogues appear on eBay. There are a few listed at the moment, but none for 1986.

[Rob 3,152]

Rob, could you confirm the Spink sale number please? Ocassionally the catalogues appear on eBay. There are a few listed at the moment, but none for 1986.

sale 56

[Generic Lad 25]

What exactly distinguishes a "VIP" proof from a normal proof? Am I correct in saying that a "VIP" proof is frosted unlike a normal proof and that is the only difference?

[Rob 3,152]

What exactly distinguishes a "VIP" proof from a normal proof? Am I correct in saying that a "VIP" proof is frosted unlike a normal proof and that is the only difference?

A VIP proof is one of a limited run struck for the chosen few. A regular proof is struck for the masses e.g. 1937, 1950, 1951 etc. They may be frosted or not depending on the issue and fill in the gaps between the common set dates.

[Peckris 579]

What exactly distinguishes a "VIP" proof from a normal proof? Am I correct in saying that a "VIP" proof is frosted unlike a normal proof and that is the only difference?

A VIP proof is one of a limited run struck for the chosen few. A regular proof is struck for the masses e.g. 1937, 1950, 1951 etc. They may be frosted or not depending on the issue and fill in the gaps between the common set dates.

The situation is confused slightly by the issue of extremely rare VIP proofs alongside regular proofs - the 1951, 1953 and 1965 crowns come to mind. In those cases, there is certainly a difference of appearance ("satin" finish, sandblasted dies, etc).

[nickosb 0]

I have been looking for a 1937 VIP proof to complete a collection. Very hard to come by. I was looking to go to 1200 on the 19th. Lucky I missed it. How was it rumbled as not a VIP, on the day itself?

[VickySilver 830]

Yes, near to that. I was going to bid on it but was dissuaded by "a well connected source" to the auction whose opinion I would absolutely rest with. I too have wanted this, but will note that as well as I think I know 20th C crowns confess to not being able to differentiate a VIP standard date from a well-struck highly frosted cameo specimen (i.e. 1937, 1951, etc.). IMO probably not worth the premium for an actual over one of the latter.

[Gary D 76]

Yes, near to that. I was going to bid on it but was dissuaded by "a well connected source" to the auction whose opinion I would absolutely rest with. I too have wanted this, but will note that as well as I think I know 20th C crowns confess to not being able to differentiate a VIP standard date from a well-struck highly frosted cameo specimen (i.e. 1937, 1951, etc.). IMO probably not worth the premium for an actual over one of the latter.

I was also looking at this one to replace my well-struck highly frosted cameo specimen, well I suspect it is. Graded PR67 by PCGS. I contacted the auction house prior to the auction and they assured me that it was a VIP. I'm not convinced.