Million Dollar Penny

[RLC35 288]

I attended the Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS) Convention in Chicago yesterday. It is a 3 day Convention. While I was there, Heritage Auctions of Dallas, Texas sold a 1792 U.S. Penny for $1,150,000 (including sales commission of 15%). The 1792 penny that was sold, is one of only 14 known.

[Accumulator 52]

I attended the Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS) Convention in Chicago yesterday. It is a 3 day Convention. While I was there, Heritage Auctions of Dallas, Texas sold a 1792 U.S. Penny for $1,150,000 (including sales commission of 15%). The 1792 penny that was sold, is one of only 14 known.

One of only 14! So not close to being unique. That's one hello of a price to pay for a coin with that many examples floating around, even if not all of them are in collector's hands.

[Peter 615]

I attended the Central States Numismatic Society (CSNS) Convention in Chicago yesterday. It is a 3 day Convention. While I was there, Heritage Auctions of Dallas, Texas sold a 1792 U.S. Penny for $1,150,000 (including sales commission of 15%). The 1792 penny that was sold, is one of only 14 known.

That is amazing for a cent.

OK it is rare but....

imagine the portfolio of hammered gold you could put together for the same $

I know what I would prefer.

[RLC35 288]

There seems to be no limit to the amount some investors will pay for rare coins. The last time a 1804 Dollar was sold (8 known) it brought $4,140,000, and the last 1913 nickel (5 known) sold for $3,737,500. Did somebody say there was a recession! <gggg>

[TomGoodheart 403]

Gosh. I think that just underlines either how ridiculously overblown prices are in the US or how unrealistically low ours are. I just can't decide which!

I wouldn't expect to pay much more than a thousandth of that for a Charles I shilling for which less than 8 examples are known. In fact most British silver or base metal coins, irrespective of how rare, could be had for, what, under £50,000?

I know that a) there are probably fewer collectors of British coins than US ones and that there are probably fewer really wealthy British coin collectors than in the US, but even so ...

.. not that I'm complaining! I have no wish to be priced out of the hobby and while there are still quite a few near-unique coins lacking from my collection, long may the madness continue!

[RLC35 288]

Tom,

Using population as a guide, there are 5 times the number of collectors in the USA, compared to the UK.

USA Population 313,500,000

UK 62,250,000

[Paulus 1,975]

Gosh. I think that just underlines either how ridiculously overblown prices are in the US or how unrealistically low ours are. I just can't decide which!

I wouldn't expect to pay much more than a thousandth of that for a Charles I shilling for which less than 8 examples are known. In fact most British silver or base metal coins, irrespective of how rare, could be had for, what, under £50,000?

I know that a) there are probably fewer collectors of British coins than US ones and that there are probably fewer really wealthy British coin collectors than in the US, but even so ...

.. not that I'm complaining! I have no wish to be priced out of the hobby and while there are still quite a few near-unique coins lacking from my collection, long may the madness continue!

I think if I ever sell my collection I will sell it in the US, or am I missing something obvious here that would prevent me doing this? Do they pay a lot more than we do for UK coins too?

[Generic Lad 25]

There seems to be no limit to the amount some investors will pay for rare coins. The last time a 1804 Dollar was sold (8 known) it brought $4,140,000, and the last 1913 nickel (5 known) sold for $3,737,500. Did somebody say there was a recession! <gggg>

Rare coin investing has really taken off in the past few years due to the recession because the traditional ways of investing (real estate, stock market, treasury bonds, CDs, etc.) have either been rather risky/unstable (stock market), have been losing value (real estate) or don't keep up with inflation (CDs, treasury bonds). The use of NGC/PCGS/CAC have really taken a lot of the risk/knowledge part out of the equation, the trend has been up, up, up with coins with less than 20 known examples and condition rarities (although condition rarities can quickly become common) and so its been attracting the wealthy.

[TomGoodheart 403]

I think if I ever sell my collection I will sell it in the US, or am I missing something obvious here that would prevent me doing this? Do they pay a lot more than we do for UK coins too?

I think it depends on the coins .. for, say, really nice modern (post 1700s) silver I get the impression that American buyers pay more than we do over here. I think there will always be a lesser interest in 'foreign' coins than US ones, but interest is increasing as American collectors realise the disparity between prices in the US and Europe.

But if your collection is somewhat specialised, as mine is, it will need someone with a bit more than average knowledge to recognise the rarity of what would otherwise appear to be a bog standard coin in none to brilliant condition! In such a case you might do better here, since the action houses are more likely to have the contacts to make a succesful sale. Similarly there will be specialist dealers here with knowledge of British coins most won't have in the US.

But that's to be expected really. EF coins will sell worldwide. Where rarity dictates that you will never find better than nVF, you need someone who recognises that to get the best price.

That of course sets aside the appeal of keeping British coins with British collectors. I'm not saying someone in the US won't appreciate the history or the coins. And if there's a huge difference in what could be realised in a sale ... but somehow I like the idea of my coins passing to someone else here, rather than disappearing abroad, perhaps for ever.

[RLC35 288]

Paulas, I am not sure buyers in the USA pay more, as most of my UK coins are sold to clients in the UK, but I have noticed a subtle increase in English coin sales in the USA.

Tom, You mentioned about English coins coming home...about 2 years ago I sold a F33 Penny (1861, 6 over 8) to an UK client, and his comment was...I'm glad the coin is coming home...so you may have something there. BTW that coin sale made the "View From the Bay" in the Coin News.

[azda 979]

Wonder what the 1933 Penny would bring in America then

[Generic Lad 25]

Most US collectors/dealers unless they specialize in British coins (haven't met a dealer who really has, although I'm in the center of the country and not on the east or west coats) would simply pay scrap for them or sell them as a curiosity. I don't think I've met a dealer who has marked any of his stuff with even a Spinks number instead its all been Krause numbers. Foreign coins are either marked for insanely cheap (they don't realize they have a key date or a silver coin) or overpriced (this is especially the case with coins dated in the 1700s or before, and especially with King George (I, II or III) coppers))

I'd imagine that if you wanted to spend the time going to dealer after dealer you could find quite a few key dates/varieties especially for pennies, but high grade or older stuff would be quite hard to find unless you went to a dealer who specialized in British coins.

[Peckris 579]

The weird thing is that I paid the equivalent of £26 for a 1903 halfcrown (GF-AVF) off a New York dealer. Ok, this was 1999 or 2000, but it's still a helluva bargain price. But I guess times change, and UK coins are now more attractive to US dealers.

[Peter 615]

The weird thing is that I paid the equivalent of £26 for a 1903 halfcrown (GF-AVF) off a New York dealer. Ok, this was 1999 or 2000, but it's still a helluva bargain price. But I guess times change, and UK coins are now more attractive to US dealers.

I've picked up some absolute bargains from US dealers.It takes a lot of patience.

The rewards are there though.

I shall not be divulging my source

[scott 144]

I was execting this to be about a penny not a cent.

i think in terms of foriegn dealers you have to remember they will know far less about our currency then we will.

it is the same with ours and other currencies. they have thier books but really.

[Coinery 1,161]

The weird thing is that I paid the equivalent of £26 for a 1903 halfcrown (GF-AVF) off a New York dealer. Ok, this was 1999 or 2000, but it's still a helluva bargain price. But I guess times change, and UK coins are now more attractive to US dealers.

I've picked up some absolute bargains from US dealers.It takes a lot of patience.

The rewards are there though.

I shall not be divulging my source

In a different thread I mentioned that I'd recently bought a US coin, but had to wait a ?1-2 months for delivery! Well it arrived today and I think it was an absolute bargain (£125 for an Elizabeth XII), I was really surprised not to come up against some strong competition from the overseas boys (and girls), made me wonder if I was not seeing something, a plug, a copper nose (figuratively speaking), etc. I'll post a couple of pics on the original thread for some opinions, grading too please. I really think you'd struggle to find a similar example in the UK for that kind of money.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Coinery

[RLC35 288]

Scott, You are correct, it is a cent, not a penny. With that said, in the USA we use both terms to designate our "Cents!" A sampling of that fact is in the news release about the sale of the "Cent."

One of the first pennies ever produced by the US Mint has sold for over $1m.

Bids for the 1792 Silver Center penny reached $1.15m (£713,000) at an auction on Thursday night (April 19), ABC News reports.

The rare penny is made of copper with a small silver plug at its center and was produced as an experiment by the US Mint, which axed the penny before it went into mass circulation, deeming it too large and heavy for practical use.

Todd Imhof of Heritage Auctions said that the coin bears the inscription 'Liberty Parent of Science & Industry', rather than today's 'In God We Trust'.

"At the time, industry and science reflected an enlightenment mindset," he added. "People believed freedom of thought and industrial growth would bind and unify the new country, not religion or God.

"With collectible items, for an item to sell for over a million dollars, it is an unusual event."

An anonymous collector, who had owned the penny for ten years, sold the coin.

A coin of the same type sold for nearly $3m (£1.86m) over a year ago.

[Accumulator 52]

Scott, You are correct, it is a cent, not a penny. With that said, in the USA we use both terms to designate our "Cents!" A sampling of that fact is in the news release about the sale of the "Cent."

One of the first pennies ever produced by the US Mint has sold for over $1m.

Bids for the 1792 Silver Center penny reached $1.15m (£713,000) at an auction on Thursday night (April 19), ABC News reports.

The rare penny is made of copper with a small silver plug at its center and was produced as an experiment by the US Mint, which axed the penny before it went into mass circulation, deeming it too large and heavy for practical use.

Todd Imhof of Heritage Auctions said that the coin bears the inscription 'Liberty Parent of Science & Industry', rather than today's 'In God We Trust'.

"At the time, industry and science reflected an enlightenment mindset," he added. "People believed freedom of thought and industrial growth would bind and unify the new country, not religion or God.

"With collectible items, for an item to sell for over a million dollars, it is an unusual event."

An anonymous collector, who had owned the penny for ten years, sold the coin.

A coin of the same type sold for nearly $3m (£1.86m) over a year ago.

This shows how news headlines heavily influence our opinions. Based on the last sentence, it could have read:

Pennies plunge 300% in a year!

Coin collectors around the world are left staring into a black hole as a rare penny barely reached a third of the value made in a similar sale just a year ago.....

[Peter 615]

I'm going to hold back my two 1792's until the market picks up again

[RLC35 288]

Accumulator, You are right...headlines tend to be effected by either optimism or pessimism (sp) ! LOL!