Counterfeit Edward VII 1905 ‘Research’ Shilling (Fake, Forgery, Co

[Coinery 1,157]

Available to all regular* contributing members for research purposes, and in-hand education.

This coin was identified and made available to all by John Stephenson of www.argentumandcoins.co.uk

It has been thought reasonable that a charitable contribution to the local Air Ambulance Service be made by any member benefiting from taking receipt of this coin (http://www.theairambulanceservice.org.uk/).

Any who are interested in getting a ‘feel’ for what is a worryingly good 1905 fake, please PM your address to me (coinery) and I’ll post it to you, the more the merrier. If each recipient were happy to retain the coin until such a time as a new member requests a viewing, this would save on postage costs. I’ll always happily have it returned if/when there is no further interest in studying it.

Comments from those who have viewed it would, I’m sure, be of interest to all here, not forgetting this will also be accessed by those searching for Edward VII counterfeit coins on the World Wide Web.

Edward VII 1905 Counterfeit Shilling

Weight: 5.61g

Diameter: 23.50

Depth (taken at rim): 1.60-1.68mm

The coin is low-grade, but well replicated (see D.E.S image below in second post), and is heavily bag-marked, with an irregular (lumpy) right obverse field. It is plated with silver (acid-tested+ on the edge for high-grade [probably sterling] silver), however, micro-pores in the plating can be viewed especially in the lower half of the reverse (see below image in second post). The coin has an unconvincing low-relief milled edge.

*defined at the discretion of the current custodian, whomever he or she may be.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Coinery

[Coinery 1,157]

Edited May 14, 2012 by Coinery

[Rob 3,152]

The line of bagmarks(?) running along the middle of the truncation looks wrong too. I would have thought that was almost impossible to achive in normal handling. It's almost as if the raised portion of the design is cominaway from the surface.

[choolie 0]

1905 must be a rare date then, for somebody bothering to fake one?

[azda 979]

1905 must be a rare date then, for somebody bothering to fake one?

Very, in high grade, along with the 05 Halfcrown which is also faked in abundance. Whats more worrying is that John mentioned that the shilling was in someones collection for 10 years and he thought for all those 10 years it was genuine. We all assumed the Chinese has been at this for 4 or 5 years, but who knows where this one has come from. Did the seller tell you John?

[argentumandcoins 70]

1905 must be a rare date then, for somebody bothering to fake one?

Very, in high grade, along with the 05 Halfcrown which is also faked in abundance. Whats more worrying is that John mentioned that the shilling was in someones collection for 10 years and he thought for all those 10 years it was genuine. We all assumed the Chinese has been at this for 4 or 5 years, but who knows where this one has come from. Did the seller tell you John?

He couldn't recall due to the length of time he had held it.

[Gary D 76]

1905 must be a rare date then, for somebody bothering to fake one?

Very, in high grade, along with the 05 Halfcrown which is also faked in abundance. Whats more worrying is that John mentioned that the shilling was in someones collection for 10 years and he thought for all those 10 years it was genuine. We all assumed the Chinese has been at this for 4 or 5 years, but who knows where this one has come from. Did the seller tell you John?

He couldn't recall due to the length of time he had held it.

The fake half crown I have supposidly came out of the middle east, possibly Turkey, in the sixties. They have been around much longer than the Chinese fakes.

[azda 979]

I was talking in general about the 05 shilling, i'd heard of altered dates on the shilling, but whats worrying is that John mentioned that the person who passed it to him had it 10 years.

Edited May 16, 2012 by azda

[Peckris 579]

I was talking in general about the 05 shilling, i'd heard of altered dates on the shilling, but whats worrying is that John mentioned that the person who passed it to him had it 10 years.

Relax. Forgeries of 1905 coins have been occurring for donkeys yonks. Don't confuse them with the Chinese factories, well not all of them .

[Coinery 1,157]

Anyone think it possible that this might be a contemporary forgery, designed only to fool an Edwardian for the sum of, well, a shilling?

If you took a random shilling from circulation, back then, and then went about creating your forgeries using the coin as your model, would it matter that you just happened to have picked the rarer type? A shilling's a shilling to a forger and the spending public!

Where are the others? Maybe this is one of the worst ones, looking suspicious on account of a lumpy field and not the most amazing edge...I'll bet they weren't all like that so, where are the others? Maybe taking pride of place somewhere, much as this one did!

Whilst the coin is very much exposed by magnification, in-hand you'd turn it over and over quite a number of times, it's very good!

Why so many 'bag marks,' if it was intended to make the best price as a more recent low-grade rarity? The 'marks' must surely have been there pre-silver plating, as it would be inconceivable that the base metal wouldn't have revealed itself if subjected to such strife, post manufacture.

Not a hypothesis, just a point for debate!

[Coinery 1,157]

The line of bagmarks(?) running along the middle of the truncation looks wrong too. I would have thought that was almost impossible to achive in normal handling. It's almost as if the raised portion of the design is cominaway from the surface.

100% agree, no way for normal circulation, looks more like it's done a few rounds in a cement mixer! However, and here's the thing I find interesting, the quality of the detail, DES, crown jewels, numerals, etc, are all so well executed that I can't see any reason why the counterfeiter would opt for such a raggy surface if his intentions were to cream it in from the collecting fraternity.

[azda 979]

I was talking in general about the 05 shilling, i'd heard of altered dates on the shilling, but whats worrying is that John mentioned that the person who passed it to him had it 10 years.

Relax. Forgeries of 1905 coins have been occurring for donkeys yonks. Don't confuse them with the Chinese factories, well not all of them .

Hmmmmm never seen a Penny forged yet then

[Peckris 579]

I was talking in general about the 05 shilling, i'd heard of altered dates on the shilling, but whats worrying is that John mentioned that the person who passed it to him had it 10 years.

Relax. Forgeries of 1905 coins have been occurring for donkeys yonks. Don't confuse them with the Chinese factories, well not all of them .

Hmmmmm never seen a Penny forged yet then

Halfcrowns and shillings, you muppet. Do I have to spell everything out?