buy gold now

[choolie 0]

Apparently gold has been in the doldrums for a few months now. The 38 day cycle is at its nadir. The price of gold is oversold and it has always bounced back from levels as low as this over the past year or so. Gold bullion coins will reflect any up move better. I got this from the investors chronicle website to which I subscribe. I've got some money on it

Hope it happens

[Rob 3,152]

Apparently gold has been in the doldrums for a few months now. The 38 day cycle is at its nadir. The price of gold is oversold and it has always bounced back from levels as low as this over the past year or so. Gold bullion coins will reflect any up move better. I got this from the investors chronicle website to which I subscribe. I've got some money on it

Hope it happens

That's a rather precise number which should therefore have a singular reason for its existence - what is it?

[choolie 0]

Yes well traders do put patterns and cycles over the graphs which come from various theories, I am not sure where this one came from. The point is if people start using these patterns then they become more significant just from the fact that they are being used. I believe this one is used by traders in the gold markets so that is why it counts. But I shall check and see if I can come up with any more information about it.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Silver has plummeted too! Silver usually follows roughly the same trend as gold.

[argentumandcoins 70]

The big problem is that you would have to invest massively to make it worthwhile and that is a huge gamble.

It is down about £130/ounce since it's December high of £1100. A £5k investment would therefore net approx £500 IF it hit the heights of late 2011. If it falls away you have maybe just blown £500.

My own personal advice would be to take your £5k and try to buy a decent quality 5 Guinea if you want some gold. At least you would have something nice to admire and to a certain degree you would be protected against gambling on the futures market.

As always, "your money, your call"

Edited May 16, 2012 by argentumandcoins

[Gary D 76]

The big problem is that you would have to invest massively to make it worthwhile and that is a huge gamble.

It is down about £130/ounce since it's December high of £1100. A £5k investment would therefore net approx £500 IF it hit the heights of late 2011. If it falls away you have maybe just blown £500.

My own personal advice would be to take your £5k and try to buy a decent quality 5 Guinea if you want some gold. At least you would have something nice to admire and to a certain degree you would be protected against gambling on the futures market.

As always, "your money, your call"

A direct quote from my weekly bulletin.

"Gold is now behaving like a risky asset. This can be seen in the unusually

high correlation in daily prices of gold and European equities. A low or negative correlation should be a key characteristic for a safe haven.â€

[choolie 0]

I made my post it has my name and is dated."Time will tell who has fell and who's been left behind when you go your way and I go mine."

[Peter 615]

Surely the problem with the Euro is worth cashing in on.It is not only Greece going pop.

Holidays abroad are likely to be down due to belt tightening and The Olympics...think of the common holiday destinations that rely on British......Greece,Spain,Italy,Portugal etc.Sterling is likely to be affected by the Euro crisis so $ up.

[Gary D 76]

Surely the problem with the Euro is worth cashing in on.It is not only Greece going pop.

Holidays abroad are likely to be down due to belt tightening and The Olympics...think of the common holiday destinations that rely on British......Greece,Spain,Italy,Portugal etc.Sterling is likely to be affected by the Euro crisis so $ up.

Sterling has risen against both the dollar and the euro recently making foreign holidays look cheaper and UK holiday even more expencive by comparison. I'm away for most of the Olympics, can't wait.

[Generic Lad 25]

Yes, I do think if gold continues this trend of dropping I'll pick up a nice (half) sovereign, I'd like to get one with a shield reverse or perhaps get some Mexican 2 gold peso coins. Fiat currencies have historically collapsed and in those collapses those who have owned hard assets such as gold and silver have emerged stronger or at least did not get burned as bad as those who have their savings in paper money.

I don't view gold and silver as an investment. Instead, I view them more as my savings account as a way to hold wealth no matter how much Bernake decides to fire up the printing press or how many more European countries will go bankrupt. I'd love to invest in more "productive" assets such as stocks and bonds but the market has become so regulated, so political that a stroke of the pen can ruin successful companies. For example, anytime there is an oil spill no matter how much or how little the company was at fault, political opinion turns against them and there is a desire to "punish" the "greedy" company. Companies that develop life-saving drugs are especially affected, if a promising drug gets denied by the FDA or its European counterparts, millions of dollars go down the drain due to bureaucracy even if the drug was effective and had minimal side effects. Facebook could get slaughtered if political opinion turns against it and new US and European privacy laws go into effect targeting its advertising policies.

Transferring wealth from fiat currencies to gold and silver seems to be the only option right now. The US is essentially bankrupt, it is only through the constant raising of the "debt ceiling" that prevents the US from defaulting on its obligations. The EU is well... the EU. The same problems that have plagued the EU and the US apply also to the UK and European nations not in the EU. Asia, Africa and Central/South America seems to be the only options and unless you have contacts over there, you can easily be burnt, especially if you don't understand the language or culture (which I do not).

[SEnumis 0]

I'm no financier but in my view gold is worth holding at the moment - it's extremely portable and highly negotiable. The same applies slightly less to silver.

[Coinery 1,153]

Yes, I do think if gold continues this trend of dropping I'll pick up a nice (half) sovereign, I'd like to get one with a shield reverse or perhaps get some Mexican 2 gold peso coins. Fiat currencies have historically collapsed and in those collapses those who have owned hard assets such as gold and silver have emerged stronger or at least did not get burned as bad as those who have their savings in paper money.

I don't view gold and silver as an investment. Instead, I view them more as my savings account as a way to hold wealth no matter how much Bernake decides to fire up the printing press or how many more European countries will go bankrupt. I'd love to invest in more "productive" assets such as stocks and bonds but the market has become so regulated, so political that a stroke of the pen can ruin successful companies. For example, anytime there is an oil spill no matter how much or how little the company was at fault, political opinion turns against them and there is a desire to "punish" the "greedy" company. Companies that develop life-saving drugs are especially affected, if a promising drug gets denied by the FDA or its European counterparts, millions of dollars go down the drain due to bureaucracy even if the drug was effective and had minimal side effects. Facebook could get slaughtered if political opinion turns against it and new US and European privacy laws go into effect targeting its advertising policies.

Transferring wealth from fiat currencies to gold and silver seems to be the only option right now. The US is essentially bankrupt, it is only through the constant raising of the "debt ceiling" that prevents the US from defaulting on its obligations. The EU is well... the EU. The same problems that have plagued the EU and the US apply also to the UK and European nations not in the EU. Asia, Africa and Central/South America seems to be the only options and unless you have contacts over there, you can easily be burnt, especially if you don't understand the language or culture (which I do not).

A thoroughly interesting and educated read!

[Peter 615]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

[Red Riley 2]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

Got a letter a couple of months ago saying my retirement age (or more strictly the age at which I could draw my old age pension) had gone up to 66. Galling thing is that if I had been 5 days older it would have remained at 65.

Never mind, it's only money.

[Generic Lad 25]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like.

The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals.

[Coinery 1,153]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like.

The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals.

Hi, generic lad,

I'm really so impressed with your capacity to speak authoritatively in these matters. It intrigues me enough to enquire, if I may, as to your knowledge base? Please don't misunderstand me in any way, I have absolutely no knowledge of these things myself, only the intelligence to question and assimilate information that I'm presented with!

I find your arguments persuasive, but have long since abandoned rhyme without reason so, if your findings have come from a long-time, self-taught, interest in this field, I salute you, and if they are more conventionally academic pronouncements, that too I respect, I'm just genuinely interested in the journey you have taken to such knowledge? A delight to read, which plays on my weaknesses, the reason I enquire!

[choolie 0]

The big problem is the all the debt we keep hearing about. The easy way out is to inflate it away by printing more money which is what they are doing and will continue to do. This does make your cash savings worth less but things which have a value independent of cash Like coins, antiques, gold and silver will be something of a hedge against inflation notwithstanding any particular issues those items may be subject to.

I don't think we'll see the stock market rising again significantly until it has priced in the greeks exiting the euro and a complete default on all their debts and even then there is portugal italy and spain to think about.

So I would advise: keep collecting coins and enjoy spending your money rather than saving it

[Peter 615]

The big problem is the all the debt we keep hearing about. The easy way out is to inflate it away by printing more money which is what they are doing and will continue to do. This does make your cash savings worth less but things which have a value independent of cash Like coins, antiques, gold and silver will be something of a hedge against inflation notwithstanding any particular issues those items may be subject to.

I don't think we'll see the stock market rising again significantly until it has priced in the greeks exiting the euro and a complete default on all their debts and even then there is portugal italy and spain to think about.

So I would advise: keep collecting coins and enjoy spending your money rather than saving it

Well said that man

Buy what you know.Nuff said.Inheritance tax avoid it.Mum has had a gambling addiction.just do it now.

[Peter 615]

The big problem is the all the debt we keep hearing about. The easy way out is to inflate it away by printing more money which is what they are doing and will continue to do. This does make your cash savings worth less but things which have a value independent of cash Like coins, antiques, gold and silver will be something of a hedge against inflation notwithstanding any particular issues those items may be subject to.

I don't think we'll see the stock market rising again significantly until it has priced in the greeks exiting the euro and a complete default on all their debts and even then there is portugal italy and spain to think about.

So I would advise: keep collecting coins and enjoy spending your money rather than saving it

Well said that man

Buy what you know.Nuff said.Inheritance tax avoid it.Mum has had a gambling addiction.just do it now.

I am so wound up...the Taxman will take the 25% taxfree lumpsum put it in farthings

[Generic Lad 25]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like.

The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals.

Hi, generic lad,

I'm really so impressed with your capacity to speak authoritatively in these matters. It intrigues me enough to enquire, if I may, as to your knowledge base? Please don't misunderstand me in any way, I have absolutely no knowledge of these things myself, only the intelligence to question and assimilate information that I'm presented with!

I find your arguments persuasive, but have long since abandoned rhyme without reason so, if your findings have come from a long-time, self-taught, interest in this field, I salute you, and if they are more conventionally academic pronouncements, that too I respect, I'm just genuinely interested in the journey you has

Most of it has come from various sources online, along with some of my friends who live (or have lived) abroad. Most of it though has come from deduction from economic statistics.

Take for example the US inflation rate, which is officially measured at ~2.30% (see http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/data/us-inflation/mcpi.cfm) now of course that doesn't measure the real inflation rate because the CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been actively manipulated by using a "basket" of items to show that the US has a lower inflation rate. For example, rather than measuring the price of, say, a pound of beef, the meats section would allow the government to cherry-pick the lowest price of beef, pork, or chicken (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement for some information about it) and using the older official method of measuring the CPI US inflation is close to 6% (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement )

Of course CDs and saving account rates are different depending on the location and bank, but using one of the major national banks over here, Bank of America, it shows that their "featured" CDs have an annual yield of .45% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=cd_10&context=tabpage_Rates_Fees ) and a savings account has an annual yield of .05% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=regular_savings_account )

Since that is much less than both the official inflation rate and the older-style inflation rate, anytime you put money in a CD, you are taking a guaranteed loss in purchasing power. Of course there are benefits in saving, especially if you have any emergencies come up but I simply don't see how "saving for retirement" in cash, CDs and savings accounts as being a useful investment.

I also enjoy reading ZeroHedge for economic news ( http://www.zerohedge.com/ ) even if it can be a bit alarmist at times

I certainly don't know everything and I'm sure if I knew more about finance I could find a few bright spots to put my cash, but I know enough about history to know that when you print money left and right (like what the Federal Reserve has done see: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE/ ) bad things happen. Rome didn't collapse in a day and neither will the US and Europe but unless something major happens, I can see the west entering an even more sharp decline and another region taking over the spot that the west has held since the 1700s as the most prosperous and most free region.

[coin watch 1]

Precious metals maybe the answer, but really I'm at a point now where I have no idea, and this coming from someone who has always been a saver and planner for the future. I always thought of my future as something secure if I worked hard enough and made the right moves (mostly financial) to make a difference to my life, this (I feel) I did ok with but could my children do the same? I fear not, because it seems to me now that hard work and saving has so many pitfalls. Personally I look at 'money' as something that has always been gradually devalued but in recent times the whole way of life of this 'western promise' has started to fall far too quickly, so fast infact that I do wonder if the whole system has been 'engineered' to fail for some sinister reason.

I Look through history and see some very worrying common patterns!! I'm sick to the back teeth reading and listeing to misleading comments that lead our way of life.

Bottom line for me now is 'sod' money and just be be happy, money has given me more headaces than anything else in my life I can think of (except the wife at times!)

Without moderate control it spirals out of control and leads to only one thing.

Just my opinions.

[Coinery 1,153]

The big problem is the all the debt we keep hearing about. The easy way out is to inflate it away by printing more money which is what they are doing and will continue to do. This does make your cash savings worth less but things which have a value independent of cash Like coins, antiques, gold and silver will be something of a hedge against inflation notwithstanding any particular issues those items may be subject to.

I don't think we'll see the stock market rising again significantly until it has priced in the greeks exiting the euro and a complete default on all their debts and even then there is portugal italy and spain to think about.

So I would advise: keep collecting coins and enjoy spending your money rather than saving it

Well said that man

Buy what you know.Nuff said.Inheritance tax avoid it.Mum has had a gambling addiction.just do it now.

I am so wound up...the Taxman will take the 25% taxfree lumpsum put it in farthings

YOU ARE a BAD boy, you'll be leading us all astray with your fanciful talk about 'wanton compliance' with the state!

[Coinery 1,153]

Trouble is I can still go on world cruise...buy an Aston Martin and waste every penny I have amassed and good old UK will still give me benefits.Why save? in 20 years time we will see.I've already been blighted by the state pension age rising.My investments will be invisible.Gordon Brown you tosspot.

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like.

The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals.

Hi, generic lad,

I'm really so impressed with your capacity to speak authoritatively in these matters. It intrigues me enough to enquire, if I may, as to your knowledge base? Please don't misunderstand me in any way, I have absolutely no knowledge of these things myself, only the intelligence to question and assimilate information that I'm presented with!

I find your arguments persuasive, but have long since abandoned rhyme without reason so, if your findings have come from a long-time, self-taught, interest in this field, I salute you, and if they are more conventionally academic pronouncements, that too I respect, I'm just genuinely interested in the journey you has

Most of it has come from various sources online, along with some of my friends who live (or have lived) abroad. Most of it though has come from deduction from economic statistics.

Take for example the US inflation rate, which is officially measured at ~2.30% (see http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/data/us-inflation/mcpi.cfm) now of course that doesn't measure the real inflation rate because the CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been actively manipulated by using a "basket" of items to show that the US has a lower inflation rate. For example, rather than measuring the price of, say, a pound of beef, the meats section would allow the government to cherry-pick the lowest price of beef, pork, or chicken (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement for some information about it) and using the older official method of measuring the CPI US inflation is close to 6% (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement )

Of course CDs and saving account rates are different depending on the location and bank, but using one of the major national banks over here, Bank of America, it shows that their "featured" CDs have an annual yield of .45% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=cd_10&context=tabpage_Rates_Fees ) and a savings account has an annual yield of .05% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=regular_savings_account )

Since that is much less than both the official inflation rate and the older-style inflation rate, anytime you put money in a CD, you are taking a guaranteed loss in purchasing power. Of course there are benefits in saving, especially if you have any emergencies come up but I simply don't see how "saving for retirement" in cash, CDs and savings accounts as being a useful investment.

I also enjoy reading ZeroHedge for economic news ( http://www.zerohedge.com/ ) even if it can be a bit alarmist at times

I certainly don't know everything and I'm sure if I knew more about finance I could find a few bright spots to put my cash, but I know enough about history to know that when you print money left and right (like what the Federal Reserve has done see: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE/ ) bad things happen. Rome didn't collapse in a day and neither will the US and Europe but unless something major happens, I can see the west entering an even more sharp decline and another region taking over the spot that the west has held since the 1700s as the most prosperous and most free region.

I get excited about an unusual butterfly passing through these days, but can very quickly tune into your statements!

You obviously spend a great deal of time absorbed in this, I wish I had your knowledge on these things, as we are still living day to day, and have little understanding of the Big Plan out there. Really interesting stuff though, and we are, more or less, planning in line with the future economy that's outlined in this thread! Thanks for your response GL

[Peter 615]

Thank you long time Jonnie

Mother in Laws partner said 15 years ago that he was going to his grave in the shirt he wore..he certainly did.

He had the best bowls and handmade fishing rods...miss him A desert Fox and proud.My kids Grandad

[Gary D 76]

I feel very frustrated about it all, I've worked hard, well worked, all my life, and religiously paid into a pension. But the way everything is moving under my feet I just don't know if I've done the right thing or just wasted my time and money. As a family we are well and truly in the squeezed middle, too much money to get any help and not rich enough not to worry. A case in point our son is a year away from university and we are now doing the rounds of open days. Because of our family income we are right on the limit of receiving nothing and will have to pay in full for any place. I can see very soon that universities are becoming places for the very rich and the poor who go virtually free with the middle classes excluded or becoming massively in debt. In this country we are too happy to penalize the people who try and give it the people who haven't tried, we definitely promote the wastrel in this country. Anyway back to gold, I have heard somewhere recently that if the value of gold had kept up with inflation its value should be nearer $4000 per ounce.