How did you learn to grade coins?

[Gary 7]

My personal stand on this is a coin with considerable wear (below EF) which is shiney just does not look right. A nicely toned coin is for me more attractive.

Like this shilling

Nice toning

[Mongo 1]

Thanks Gary!

The coin I posted is listed for sale as NEF. I will probably go ahead and buy it. As many have advised in this thread, it is more important to chose a coin you think looks nice, rather than worry too much about grade. I just wanted to check about the dipping/cleaning, as that is something I am still trying to learn how to pick up!

I agree about the lesser grades looking super "shiny" not being ideal, it would not look like natural wear. I will keep an eye out for that!

[Peckris 579]

Thanks Gary!

The coin I posted is listed for sale as NEF. I will probably go ahead and buy it. As many have advised in this thread, it is more important to chose a coin you think looks nice, rather than worry too much about grade. I just wanted to check about the dipping/cleaning, as that is something I am still trying to learn how to pick up!

I agree about the lesser grades looking super "shiny" not being ideal, it would not look like natural wear. I will keep an eye out for that!

It very much depends how much they are asking for it. 1902 is the commonest date for all Edward denominations, by an order of several times over, so there will be plenty of high grade examples out there. It has possibly been dipped lightly once, but there seems to be genuine lustre and it looks a nice EF example. If you like it, go for it - but don't pay over the odds for it (i.e. don't even pay Spink current price). If it's a bargain or at least reasonable then I'm sure it will turn out to be a good buy.

[Paulus 1,975]

My personal stand on this is a coin with considerable wear (below EF) which is shiney just does not look right. A nicely toned coin is for me more attractive.

Like this shilling

Nice toning

Thanks Gary, that's mine, yey!! I don't buy to sell (unless there is a snip on fleabay) but I do like to know that I wouldn't lose on the coins I have if I had to sell them, and I think that is definitely the case with this one, in fact I think if I got it graded and slabbed it could easily go for 300 + at auction or in the US ... Of course I know that is very small potatoes for some of the high rollers on here!

[Peter 615]

My personal stand on this is a coin with considerable wear (below EF) which is shiney just does not look right. A nicely toned coin is for me more attractive.

Like this shilling

Nice toning

Thanks Gary, that's mine, yey!! I don't buy to sell (unless there is a snip on fleabay) but I do like to know that I wouldn't lose on the coins I have if I had to sell them, and I think that is definitely the case with this one, in fact I think if I got it graded and slabbed it could easily go for 300 + at auction or in the US ... Of course I know that is very small potatoes for some of the high rollers on here!

I could live with that..it is a no brainer

[Peter 615]

One little tip.

Do not try and clip the trees in the front garden after a few sips of scrumpy...luckily I fell on my head.

[TomGoodheart 402]

One little tip.

Do not try and clip the trees in the front garden after a few sips of scrumpy...luckily I fell on my head.

PETER! Don't you know you're doing it wrong!?

Wife clips trees. You drink scrumpy. Result: Health & Safety maintained!

[Mongo 1]

It very much depends how much they are asking for it. 1902 is the commonest date for all Edward denominations, by an order of several times over, so there will be plenty of high grade examples out there. It has possibly been dipped lightly once, but there seems to be genuine lustre and it looks a nice EF example. If you like it, go for it - but don't pay over the odds for it (i.e. don't even pay Spink current price). If it's a bargain or at least reasonable then I'm sure it will turn out to be a good buy.

Thanks Peck! I went ahead and ordered it, along with a couple of UNC coins for my collection. I felt that £14 was a good price for the eddie shilling

[1949threepence 3,367]

To a great extent, grading is an art, but one which becomes almost instinctive second nature after you've been collecting for a time. That said, grading points to look for will differ from monarch to monarch and denomination to denomination.

There will always be grading disagreements between numismatists, but as a rule, this will be no more than half a grade ~ eg: the difference between EF and GEF. It's far from an exact science. Also, dealers will usually up the grade to the higher acceptable limit when selling, yet be more critical on grading when they are buying coins from sellers. That's business, and you can't blame them for that.

As others have pointed out, there is also the subjective "eye" appeal factor, which might mean that a lower grade coin will sell for more than a slightly higher grade coin, simply because it looks better, maybe with more even toning. Such things as carbon spots, edge knocks, lack of field smoothness and score marks, can adversely affect an otherwise superb coin, to a very significant extent. These will all differ in their severity. Some are hardly noticeable, whilst others hit you hard in the eye. Bit like blemishes on a person's face. Moreover, different parts of the coin will receive wear, depending on the individual coin. Although there are common areas of wear, such as hair detail, there is some variability within any given grade.

Another factor that very often occurs, is that the obverse grade will be different to the reverse grade. Maybe the obverse is GEF and the reverse, just EF. In which case the coin might reasonably be described as GEF/EF.

A final point to consider is lustre or lack of it. Generally, but not exclusively, if a coin has lustre it will be at least NEF or above. Nonetheless, it is eminently possible for a coin to have no visible lustre, yet still be classed as EF or above.

I can thoroughly recommend Derek's book "Grading British coins", especially if you are collecting British coins. It's a really excellent publication and covers pretty much all aspects of grading for all the different milled coin types. I've found it very useful.

[1949threepence 3,367]

An example of an otherwise really nice coin being ruined by a huge and obtrusive carbon spot or other stain:-

Edited June 6, 2012 by 1949threepence

[1949threepence 3,367]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

An example of an UNC coin where the reverse shows considerably subdued lustre, whilst the obverse is BU. Presumably a result of multi decadal storing in the same position:-

[Mongo 1]

Thanks for taking the time to post all your advice and the pictures threepence! It really is helpful to me, and greatly appreciated

If I had not joined this forum and listened to the advice everyone has given, I would probably be dismissing alot of coins I have come accross as dirty, stained etc. When in fact they are lovely!

I am becoming more confident in making good decisions with each coin I purchase, and with every coin I decide not to purchase, such as those with big carbon spots, verdigris, EK's, dents etc.

I have also seen many coins with tiny carbon spots etc. that I now think look really nice, when before I would maybe think it detracted from the coins appeal, so I think my observation skills are improving too.

I know I will make mistakes, but I intend to learn from each and every one when I do!

[Rob 3,152]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

There are fingerprints on the reverse though, which will count against it.

[Mongo 1]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

There are fingerprints on the reverse though, which will count against it.

Let me have a go at that Rob! I need to practice... Is the finger print at the top left, between the head and the E?

[1949threepence 3,367]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

There are fingerprints on the reverse though, which will count against it.

Very minor, and they don't negate the point I'm making. Moreover, they're not visible to the naked eye.

Edited June 6, 2012 by 1949threepence

[1949threepence 3,367]

Thanks for taking the time to post all your advice and the pictures threepence! It really is helpful to me, and greatly appreciated

If I had not joined this forum and listened to the advice everyone has given, I would probably be dismissing alot of coins I have come accross as dirty, stained etc. When in fact they are lovely!

I am becoming more confident in making good decisions with each coin I purchase, and with every coin I decide not to purchase, such as those with big carbon spots, verdigris, EK's, dents etc.

I have also seen many coins with tiny carbon spots etc. that I now think look really nice, when before I would maybe think it detracted from the coins appeal, so I think my observation skills are improving too.

I know I will make mistakes, but I intend to learn from each and every one when I do!

No worries, Mongo. Pleased you've found it helpful

[1949threepence 3,367]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

There are fingerprints on the reverse though, which will count against it.

Let me have a go at that Rob! I need to practice... Is the finger print at the top left, between the head and the E?

Yes, and also between the N & Y of penny, but they only show up on the photo. In hand they are completely invisible, even through a magnifying glass.

[Mongo 1]

An example of a near unc coin with superb natural toning and smooth unblemished fields:-

There are fingerprints on the reverse though, which will count against it.

Let me have a go at that Rob! I need to practice... Is the finger print at the top left, between the head and the E?

Yes, and also between the N & Y of penny, but they only show up on the photo. In hand they are completely invisible, even through a magnifying glass.

Thanks threepence, I can see that one too, now you have pointed it out.

[Peckris 579]

Yes, and also between the N & Y of penny, but they only show up on the photo. In hand they are completely invisible, even through a magnifying glass.

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

[Peter 615]

Yes, and also between the N & Y of penny, but they only show up on the photo. In hand they are completely invisible, even through a magnifying glass.

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

I'm so confused.

Right footie starts tomorrow.How do you think the Jocks will get along?

[Peckris 579]

Yes, and also between the N & Y of penny, but they only show up on the photo. In hand they are completely invisible, even through a magnifying glass.

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

I'm so confused.

Right footie starts tomorrow.How do you think the Jocks will get along?

Right footie? Isn't that sinister discrimination against all those left sided players?

I think the Jocks are in even worse state than we are, which is saying something

[1949threepence 3,367]

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

Nevertheless, it's true. I've looked at it very closely, and I cannot see any fingerprints when the coin is held in hand ~ and I have extremely acute eyesight.

Don't forget the pic is considerably enlarged. When unclicked on it is exactly the size of a penny (on my screen anyway), can you see any fingerprints then ?

errr, no

Right, footie starts tomorrow.How do you think the Jocks will get along?

You mean they're actually in it ? Crikey

Edited June 7, 2012 by 1949threepence

[Rob 3,152]

Right footie? Isn't that sinister discrimination against all those left sided players?

Depends on the viewpoint.

[Peckris 579]

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

Nevertheless, it's true. I've looked at it very closely, and I cannot see any fingerprints when the coin is held in hand ~ and I have extremely acute eyesight.

Don't forget the pic is considerably enlarged. When unclicked on it is exactly the size of a penny (on my screen anyway), can you see any fingerprints then ?

errr, no

Right, footie starts tomorrow.How do you think the Jocks will get along?

You mean they're actually in it ? Crikey

I think you missed my joke there Mike - you were talking about a fingerprint that was invisible in hand ... oh, never mind.

No, the Jocks aren't in it. That's the one advantage they have over us

[1949threepence 3,367]

An invisible "in hand" fingerprint ... I will sit down and think through the surreal logic of that

Nevertheless, it's true. I've looked at it very closely, and I cannot see any fingerprints when the coin is held in hand ~ and I have extremely acute eyesight.

Don't forget the pic is considerably enlarged. When unclicked on it is exactly the size of a penny (on my screen anyway), can you see any fingerprints then ?

errr, no

Right, footie starts tomorrow.How do you think the Jocks will get along?

You mean they're actually in it ? Crikey

I think you missed my joke there Mike - you were talking about a fingerprint that was invisible in hand ... oh, never mind.

No, the Jocks aren't in it. That's the one advantage they have over us

I'm missing pretty much everything today, Chris. The constant rain is addling my brain